Does starting CON affect endgame HP?

[bunnies]

I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that the amount of points you have in CON at the start of the game affects your hp progression, and consequently the total hp you have at end game. For this reason, I dump all my points into CON during character creation, and distribute the rest normally. Is this advice still valid?

[Philip]

Not as far as I am aware. The only CON effect I know is adding x hp/level, where x depends on current CON, and applies retroactively. CON does not have anything to do with hit dice, which is a stat that is fixed at the very start of the game and determines the amount of hp you get to roll for at each level up. Additionally, there is a hidden stat called Life Rating, which essentially determines how lucky you are with those rolls. It's hidden from the player though, and it can't be changed. I am quite certain that there is no effect on player HP or MP that does not apply retroactively.

The only exception I know to this is in the Chengband series of variants, where you can learn your life rating with Self Knowledge and change it with New Life, but there it also applies retroactively.

[bunnies]

Not as far as I am aware. The only CON effect I know is adding x hp/level, where x depends on current CON, and applies retroactively. CON does not have anything to do with hit dice, which is a stat that is fixed at the very start of the game and determines the amount of hp you get to roll for at each level up. Additionally, there is a hidden stat called Life Rating, which essentially determines how lucky you are with those rolls. It's hidden from the player though, and it can't be changed. I am quite certain that there is no effect on player HP or MP that does not apply retroactively.

The only exception I know to this is in the Chengband series of variants, where you can learn your life rating with Self Knowledge and change it with New Life, but there it also applies retroactively.

Got it, thanks. I remember reading it when we were still on rgra, so a really long time ago. So either it worked differently then, I'm remembering wrong, or the advice was bad. Regardless it means I dont have to CON dump my starting chars.

[Werbaer]

CON does not have anything to do with hit dice, which is a stat that is fixed at the very start of the game and determines the amount of hp you get to roll for at each level up. Additionally, there is a hidden stat called Life Rating, which essentially determines how lucky you are with those rolls.

It's the other way round.
Since 2.7.x, the hit points you gain at each level-up are all rolled at character creation (to prevent the Grape Jelly trick from 2.4.frog-knows).
The "Life Rating" stat was introduced by some variants to show the average result of these rolls.

[Moving Pictures]

It's the other way round.
Since 2.7.x, the hit points you gain at each level-up are all rolled at character creation (to prevent the Grape Jelly trick from 2.4.frog-knows).

In other words, when you're going from Level x to level x+1, it's too late to pray for a good hit dice roll. Do all the praying when you hit *yes* to accept character and begin.

[Derakon]

In other words, when you're going from Level x to level x+1, it's too late to pray for a good hit dice roll. Do all the praying when you hit *yes* to accept character and begin.

Pretty much. But the game does IIRC constrain hit die results to not be too far from average in either direction. I forget if it's two standard deviations or 20% but it's something along those lines. So it's not possible for you to roll 1 on every single roll, nor for you to roll max every time.

It is however possible that your first 25 rolls would all be 1s and the rest all be max, though!

[Moving Pictures]

It is however possible that your first 25 rolls would all be 1s and the rest all be max, though!

I do not usually pay attention to such increments, but while documenting the doomed half-orc fighter doing the ironman,I noticed a string of pretty undesirable rolls right when I kinda sorta needed more than what I got.

But, I imagine if I went over the increments, there was some love at the start.

[Moving Pictures]

As an aside - comparing two fighters. same level, about same con. Level 28, one had 293, other had 292. I'd say that be working as intended.

[PowerWyrm]

http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=8466

Lvl: 18, HP: 98 (avg 132)

That's a PWMAngband Thunderlord Necromancer with a hit die of 13. Having -34 hps after 17 level increases means he rolled an average of 5 per level instead of the expected 7. I checked the hp rolls afterwards, this character ended up with 1 hp over average in the end, so the game balanced the early low rolls by high rolls. Of course, since you're going to get way more hps in the end due to higher CON, it's *much* easier to play a character that gets the opposite (high rolls at low level, low rolls at high level).