Noob trying to improve threat assessment

**Philip** · December 3, 2017, 12:13

Your character seems extraordinarily well-equipped to handle this vault. For example, most characters would be rightfully scared of a Great Crystal Wyrm and a nexus vortex, two of the closest monsters to one of the entrances. But you have Arvedui, so both of those are a lot less scary. In a 1-to-1 fight you could easily kill the Great Crystal Wyrm, their name is a lot more threatening than they actually are. Of course, the presence of the Thunder Giant nearby, and the Patriarch, Balrog, and Sorcerer not too far away complicates things a bit. Still, I wouldn't expect any of the monsters in the middle to kill you, let alone insta-kill you. You definitely don't want to fight the Thunder Giant, they're unpredictable and can kill your TO. You also don't want to fight the Lesser Balrog, because I think it can drain your TO and is generally a pain to fight with no reward. The Patriarch and Sorcerer are unpredictable, fast, and can cause a lot of damage in one turn. If anything in the middle section were to kill you, it would be them. TO the moment you can, as safely as possible. The Death Knight you could kill, I think, since I don't expect it to outdamage CCW reliably. But you probably can't fight it at the same time as you fight anything else even remotely threatening. The Quylthulg is bad news, but if you stay out of its LOS until everything scary is gone, you can go fairly safely go kill it, since Theoden is good against dragons and you're good for rbase. The ethereal dragon will likely find you, since it has passwall. You can kill it, but it can do a lot of damage fairly quickly. Make sure you get the first hit and you'll be fine. The death quasit can also find you, but you have sustain dexterity, so you're relatively safe from it. Again, you can kill it, but don't fight it at the same time as any other threatening monster if you can help it.

The right section of the vault has relatively few terrifying monsters, since you can out-heal the Trolls, and they're not too threatening at range. That leaves basically Smaug and the Dark Elven Sorcerer, both of whom can do a lot of damage in one round with their speed. TO them both, since you can't really safely fight either with anything else around. The hellhound might destroy some stuff, but won't kill you. The nexus quylthulg is bad, though unless you enter it's section, it won't do anything to you, so probably just avoid that area.

I don't know much about the left section of the vault, but bronze golems are terrifying and powerful, and you should TO it the moment you can. Of course, if while moving towards the vault you find out that there are other scary monsters in it, you might want to avoid opening that section. If you find out there are scary passwall monsters in it, you might want to avoid opening the vault in the first place, since it would increase the cost and risk of getting the stuff in the other two sections.

**Grotug** · December 3, 2017, 12:16

I guess what concerns me a little is that your -Detection didn't reach the far end of the vault. I'm not sure Smaug and a lesser Balrog are going to generate a 9 on DL 39. Seems that at most they might generate a 7. But you totally can handle what is there.

If you still have the detection screen up, can you look at the bronze colored g in the lower left corner? If that is a bronze golem, that would give you a level 9 feeling as its native depth is 68 or deeper. Golems are not detected by Telepathy. I'm trying to remember what bronze golems breathe for 500 (or is it fire for over 1000?). But whatever it is, it's probably enough to insta kill you. I don't think anything else can insta kill you, but you definitely want to TO the lesser balrog, Smaug, and the stooges may give you trouble but don't do more than like 100 damage to you a turn. Even though you rShards you probably want to TO the great crystal drake since your Theodon really doesn't do much damage even against dragons. I believe the Great Crystal Drake has like 1848 hitpoints? All these characters I've mentioned move basically twice as fast as you (1.9X faster than you to be exact). So you either want to quaff a potion of speed while you are TOing them and/or go for favorable hockey stick line of sight and hope your TO doesn't fail twice in a row.

Oh, and the Great Crystal Drake probably messes with your mind (confuses).

Be sure to kill the memory moss (the little red comma) and just be warned that the light blue Ps (storm giants) love to destroy objects that your character is carrying that TO. The blue Zs do as well.

The green Q will summon things, but hopefully he will 'blink' when he sees you and not summon something nasty.

The light blue E (and most Es in general) will bop around eratically destroying objects on the floor. He alone could be reason to quaff a potion of speed and hope to get to him before he has woken up and crushed something nice. I don't think he can crush artifacts, though.

It's always tough to know when to use Banishment. Some games I hoard them and only use them if I absolutely need to, like a swarm of Time hounds is in a vault. There was a time in my career as an adventurer where I kept finding vaults filled with Es or other annoying monsters that would wreck all the good stuff inside the vault, so sometimes I'd banish them, but I doubt anyone on these forums will be advising you to banish the E.

You'll probably want to risk fighting the storm giant since he picks up objects. So if he picks up Elvenkind boots and then you TO him, well, no fancy boots for you! Of course, what are the odds he'll pick up a great non-artifact item? Oh, don't get me started on odds.... I wouldn't fight the storm giant without hasting your self first, though.

Just curious; what are you saving the neutralize poison potions for? The Haradrim is a great shield and as long as you're wearing it you can't be poisoned. And at this depth when you don't have rPois you don't get the chance to quaff a potion of neutralize poison after you've been instakilled by a drolem's poison breath.

**Pete Mack** · December 3, 2017, 13:31

Yeah, you're good to go. Smaug and the GCD can't kill you in one turn. (But do use the wand rather than the rod for them.) The rest are essentially harmless (tho the Nexus Q can give you a lot of trouble.)
Edit: your monster list in the image is missing the top monsters. Is that orange 'g' a bronze golem? THAT could kill you in a turn.

**Estie** · December 3, 2017, 14:05

While you are equipped to break this vault open, I would not do so because it is a bad vault type - few good items for the large amount of nasties. There are better ones ahead. But if you feel the itch, have fun.

**Talharim** · December 3, 2017, 19:52

Can any of them come out if I don't open the vault? Or worse, open the vault themselves?

**Philip** · December 3, 2017, 21:11

Of the ones you can see, the Will'o'the wisps, Ethereal Dragons, Death Quasits can walk through walls, so they can get out of the vault. I don't remember if monsters with phase can phase out of the vault though.

**kandrc** · December 3, 2017, 21:17

Originally posted by Philip

I don't remember if monsters with phase can phase out of the vault though.

They can, but they can only do that when facing @.

There are also tunnelers, that can break the vault wide open, but they're fairly rare. Umber Hulks, Black Reavers, Maeglin... is that it? Morgoth, of course, but he can only show up on 100.

**mrfy** · December 3, 2017, 23:03

Originally posted by kandrc

They can, but they can only do that when facing @.

There are also tunnelers, that can break the vault wide open, but they're fairly rare. Umber Hulks, Black Reavers, Maeglin... is that it? Morgoth, of course, but he can only show up on 100.

Also Atlas, the Titan.

**jevansau** · December 4, 2017, 05:17

I'd guess this one isn't worth the risk. Level is only treasure level 6.
Also having bad stealth means you are not likely to get much time before things start waking up.

**PowerWyrm** · December 4, 2017, 10:13

There are only 5 dangerous monsters inside, and with Balli you can pretty much obliterate the rest. You should'nt pass the opportunity. When you're done clearing the outer area, remember to use your charge of banishment for Q, because you don't want to be teleported away by the nexus Q when there are nasties loose on the level that could instashot you.

**Talharim** · December 4, 2017, 23:17

I finally wimped out. It was probably a bit too cowardish but hey, still alive.
Thanks for all the tips that helped me understand the game better.

**Pete Mack** · December 5, 2017, 19:40

Probably wise. There will be more vaults soon enough, with easier layout and significantly better loot.

**A Magical Lamp** · December 18, 2017, 19:38

A good general rule of thumb is if it shimmers it's dangerous. Not true all the time and there's plenty of dangerous enemies that don't shimmer but generally shimmering enemies are the ones to look out for.

Noob trying to improve threat assessment

Noob trying to improve threat assessment

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