Vault(?) and what to do?

[Diogenes]

Hello all,

I'm currently working on (preparing to) kill / killing Morgoth with a half-orc Warrior. The current level is a 9-9 (the first time I encoutered a level with both monster and reward level of 9).

The Dlev 35 (see also attachment) contains a vault (?) having:

• Omarax the eye tyrant
• Scatha the Worm
• Two regular Ancient Dragons

What to do? (My first instinct tells me to run like hell - apart from the fact that I have yet to find the entry point).

[Estie]

What kind of file is that ? Save file, text file ? If its a save file, which version of Angband does it belong to ?

It is much easier to comment when there is a ladder dump.

[Diogenes]

Hi Estie,

Apologies for the confusion. The file attached to the OP is a save file in 4.0.5.

This is the ladder dump

[kandrc]

Hi Estie,

Apologies for the confusion. The file attached to the OP is a save file in 4.0.5.

This is the ladder dump

Here it is in a code block:

  [Angband 4.0.5 Character Dump]

 Name   Vingion      Age             12          Self  RB  CB  EB   Best
 Race   Half-Orc     Height        5'4"   Str:  18/41  +2  +3  +2 18/111  18/81
 Class  Warrior      Weight    10st 1lb   Int:      9  -1  -2  +3      9      8
 Title  Myrmidon     Turns used:          Wis:      8  +0  -2  +4     10      8
 HP     371/371      Game        323273   Dex:  18/60  +0  +2  +6 18/140 18/130
 SP     0/0          Standard     33822   Con:     12  +1  +2  +2     17     16
                     Resting       3056

 Level                 29    Armor      [36,+77]    Saving Throw     45%
 Cur Exp            73893                           Stealth          Bad
 Max Exp            76248    Melee       1d6,+24    Disarming        55%
 Adv Exp            82500    To-hit       70,+21    Magic Devices     36
                             Blows      5.5/turn    Perception   1 in 41
 Gold               31386                           Searching        14%
 Burden          130.6 lb    Shoot to-dam    +15    Infravision    30 ft
 Overweight      -49.3 lb    To-hit       60,+28    Speed              4
 Max Depth    1750' (L35)    Shots        2/turn

 Your father was an Orc, but it is unacknowledged. You are the adopted
 child of a Serf.  You are a credit to the family.  You have brown
 eyes, straight auburn hair, and a dark complexion.


rAcid:..+...+.+.... Nexus:...........+.
rElec:.+........... Nethr:.............
rFire:.+........... Chaos:.............
rCold:.+........... Disen:.............
rPois:............. pFear:.............
rLite:..........+.. pBlnd:.............
rDark:............+ pConf:.............
Sound:............. pStun:.............
Shard:......+...... HLife:.............

Regen:............. Stea.:.......+.....
  ESP:............. Sear.:.............
Invis:+............ Infra:............+
FrAct:+.....+...+.. Tunn.:.............
Feath:...........+. Speed:.+....+......
S.Dig:.+........... Blows:.............
ImpHP:............. Shots:.+...........
 Fear:............. Might:.+...........
Aggrv:............. Light:.....+....+..


  [Character Equipment]

a) a Rapier of Westernesse (1d6) (+5,+6) <+2, +1>
     Found lying on the floor at 850 feet (level 17)
     
     +2 strength.
     +1 dexterity.
     +2 constitution.
     Slays giants, trolls, orcs.
     Prevents paralysis.  Grants the ability to see invisible things.  
     
     Combat info:
     5.5 blows/round.
     With +0 STR and +2 DEX you would get 5.8 blows
     Average damage/round: 195.3 vs. giants, 195.3 vs. trolls, 195.3
     vs. orcs, and 154.8 vs. others.
     
b) the Short Bow of Amras (x3) (+12,+15) <+2, +1>
     Dropped by Uglúk, the Uruk at 1750 feet (level 35)
     
     +2 intelligence.
     +2 wisdom.
     +2 dexterity.
     +1 speed.
     +1 shooting speed.
     +1 shooting power.
     Provides resistance to lightning, fire, frost.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Slows your metabolism.  
     
c) a Ring of Acid [+12]
     Found lying on the floor of a special room at 1750 feet (level 35)
     
     Provides resistance to acid.
     
d) a Ring of Damage (+0,+8)
     Found lying on the floor at 1150 feet (level 23)
     
e) an Amulet of Wisdom <+2>
     Found lying on the floor of a special room at 1400 feet (level 28)
     
     +2 wisdom.
     Sustains wisdom.
     
f) the Phial of Galadriel <+3>
     Dropped by Mughash the Kobold Lord at 450 feet (level 9)
     
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     Radius 3 light.
     
     When activated, it lights up the surrounding area, hurting
     light-sensitive creatures.
     Takes 15 to 28 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 91.0%
     
g) the Leather Scale Mail 'Thalkettoth' (-1) [20,+24] <+3>
     Found lying on the floor of a special room at 1650 feet (level 33)
     
     +3 dexterity.
     +3 speed.
     Provides resistance to acid, shards.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Prevents paralysis.  
     
h) a Fur Cloak of Stealth [3,+0] <+2>
     Dropped by Sméagol at 1350 feet (level 27)
     
     +2 stealth.
     
i) a Small Metal Shield of Resist Acid [5,+6]
     Found lying on the floor at 1150 feet (level 23)
     
     Provides resistance to acid.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     
j) an Iron Helm of Intelligence [7,+6] <+1>
     Found lying on the floor at 1400 feet (level 28)
     
     +1 intelligence.
     Sustains intelligence.
     
k) the Set of Leather Gloves 'Cammithrim' (+5,+5) [1,+10] <+1>
     Dropped by Mîm, Betrayer of Turin at 1750 feet (level 35)
     
     Provides resistance to light.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Sustains constitution.
     Prevents paralysis.  
     Radius 1 light.
     
     When activated, it fires a magic missile with damage 3d4.
     Takes 2 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 90.2%
     
l) a Pair of Ethereal Slippers of Stability [0,+10]
     Dropped by Mîm, Betrayer of Turin at 1750 feet (level 35)
     
     Provides resistance to nexus.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Feather Falling.  
     




  [Character Inventory]

a) 3 Black Mushrooms
     You do not know the full extent of this item's powers.
     
b) 4 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
c) 12 Scrolls of Phase Door
d) 3 Scrolls of Magic Mapping
e) 11 Scrolls of Satisfy Hunger
f) 3 Scrolls of Identify
g) 6 Scrolls of Word of Recall
h) a Scroll of Recharging
i) a Rod of Treasure Location
j) a Rod of Door/Stair Location
k) a Rod of Trap Location
l) 2 Rods of Frost Bolts
m) a Rod of Teleport Other
n) a Staff of Mapping (5 charges)
o) 2 Staves of Curing (5 charges)
p) a Staff of Dispel Evil (0 charges)
q) 2 Staves of Teleportation (16 charges)
r) 3 Staves of Identify (21 charges)
s) the Zweihander 'Gurthang' (3d6) (+13,+17) <+2>
     Dropped by Azog, King of the Uruk-Hai at 1700 feet (level 34)
     
     +2 strength.
     Slays dragons (powerfully).
     Branded with poison, fire.
     Provides resistance to fire, poison gas.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     Slows your metabolism.  Speeds regeneration.  Prevents paralysis. 
     
     
     Combat info:
     3.8 blows/round.
     With +2 STR and +0 DEX you would get 4.0 blows
     With +0 STR and +3 DEX you would get 4.3 blows
     Average damage/round: 274.5 vs. creatures not resistant to poison,
     274.5 vs. creatures not resistant to fire, 363.2 vs. dragons, and
     185.8 vs. others.
     
t) a Long Bow of Extra Shots (x3) (+12,+8) <+1>
     Dropped by an Ogre at 1300 feet (level 26)
     
     +1 shooting speed.
     




  [Character Quiver]

0) 20 Arrows (1d4) (+0,+0)
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 120 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 107.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     


  [Home Inventory]

a) 4 Potions of Restore Life Levels
b) 12 Scrolls of Satisfy Hunger
c) 11 Scrolls of Protection from Evil
d) 2 Staves of Mapping (12 charges)
e) 2 Staves of Teleportation (0 charges)


[Player history]
      Turn   Depth  Note
         0      0'  Began the quest to destroy Morgoth.
      1010    100'  Reached level 2
      1055    100'  Reached level 3
      1268    150'  Reached level 4
      1407    150'  Reached level 5
      1529    150'  Killed Fang, Farmer Maggot's dog
      1800    200'  Reached level 6
      1858    200'  Reached level 7
      1868    200'  Reached level 8
      3677    200'  Reached level 9
      4520    400'  Killed Bullroarer the Hobbit
      4554    400'  Reached level 10
      4985    450'  Killed Mughash the Kobold Lord
      4985    450'  Reached level 11
      4988    450'  Found the Phial of Galadriel
      6354    700'  Reached level 12
      6438    700'  Killed Brodda, the Easterling
      6438    700'  Reached level 13
      6708    750'  Killed Orfax, Son of Boldor
      6818    750'  Reached level 14
      7202    800'  Reached level 15
      7233    800'  Killed Golfimbul, the Hill Orc Chief
      7266    800'  Killed Grishn&#195;&#161;kh, the Hill Orc
      7266    800'  Reached level 16
      7736    800'  Reached level 17
      8302      0'  Killed Farmer Maggot
      8682    850'  Reached level 18
      9240    850'  Reached level 19
      9360    850'  Killed Ulfast, Son of Ulfang
     10130    850'  Reached level 20
     10986    900'  Reached level 21
     12866   1000'  Killed N&#195;&#161;r, the Dwarf
     13282   1000'  Reached level 22
     14018   1000'  Killed Shagrat, the Orc Captain
     14552   1000'  Killed Angamait&#195;&#171; of Umbar
     15300   1000'  Reached level 23
     16513   1050'  Killed Lagduf, the Snaga
     16524   1050'  Reached level 24
     17098   1100'  Killed Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman
     17494   1150'  Reached level 25
     19532   1200'  Killed Gorbag, the Orc Captain
     21295   1300'  Reached level 26
     21492   1300'  Killed Ibun, Son of M&#195;&#174;m
     22099   1350'  Killed Sm&#195;&#169;agol
     23079   1350'  Killed Grip, Farmer Maggot's dog
     24866   1650'  Killed Ulwarth, Son of Ulfang
     24881   1650'  Reached level 27
     25558   1650'  Killed Kh&#195;&#174;m, Son of M&#195;&#174;m
     25764   1650'  Found the Leather Scale Mail 'Thalkettoth'
     26417   1650'  Reached level 28
     27061   1700'  Killed Ufthak of Cirith Ungol
     27952   1700'  Killed Azog, King of the Uruk-Hai
     28139   1700'  Killed Bolg, Son of Azog
     28207   1700'  Reached level 29
     28522   1700'  Found the Zweihander 'Gurthang'
     30767   1750'  Killed M&#195;&#174;m, Betrayer of Turin
     30903   1750'  Found the Set of Leather Gloves 'Cammithrim'
     33035   1750'  Killed Lugdush, the Uruk
     33066   1750'  Killed Ugl&#195;&#186;k, the Uruk
     33189   1750'  Found the Short Bow of Amras


  [Options]

  [User interface]

Use the roguelike command keyset             : no  (rogue_like_commands)
Use sound                                    : no  (use_sound)
Show damage player deals to monsters         : no  (show_damage)
Use old target by default                    : yes (use_old_target)
Always pickup items                          : no  (pickup_always)
Always pickup items matching inventory       : yes (pickup_inven)
Show flavors in object descriptions          : no  (show_flavors)
Highlight target with cursor                 : yes (show_target)
Disturb whenever viewable monster moves      : yes (disturb_near)
Show walls as solid blocks                   : no  (solid_walls)
Show walls with shaded background            : no  (hybrid_walls)
Color: Illuminate torchlight in yellow       : no  (view_yellow_light)
Color: Shimmer multi-colored things          : no  (animate_flicker)
Center map continuously                      : no  (center_player)
Color: Show unique monsters in purple        : no  (purple_uniques)
Automatically clear '-more-' prompts         : no  (auto_more)
Color: Player color indicates % hit points   : yes (hp_changes_color)
Allow mouse clicks to move the player        : yes (mouse_movement)
Notify on object recharge                    : no  (notify_recharge)

  [Birth]

Randomise the artifacts (except a very few)  : no  (birth_randarts)
Word of Recall has no effect                 : no  (birth_no_recall)
Restrict creation of artifacts               : no  (birth_no_artifacts)
Don't stack objects on the floor             : no  (birth_no_stacking)
Lose artifacts when leaving level            : no  (birth_no_preserve)
Don't generate connected stairs              : no  (birth_no_stairs)
Don't show level feelings                    : no  (birth_no_feelings)
Increase gold drops but disable selling      : no  (birth_no_selling)
Use previous set of randarts                 : no  (birth_keep_randarts)
Start with a kit of useful gear              : no  (birth_start_kit)
Monsters learn from their mistakes           : no  (birth_ai_learn)
Force player descent                         : no  (birth_force_descend)

[Diogenes]

Hi kandrc,

Thanks for posting!

However, the code block does not contain the vault I was wondering about.

[kandrc]

The ancient Ds you can probably handle one at a time, unless they're AMHDs. Scatha will not one-shot you, but he's out of your league for now. And Omarax is bad news; you do not want him to get line-of-sight with you. If the vault is a type with granite walls that need to be tunneled out, and you can keep the big baddies compartmentalized, then open the "safe" areas and stay away from the unsafe. If that's not the case, then just leave it be; there will be plenty of other vaults.

[kandrc]

Hi kandrc,

Thanks for posting!

However, the code block does not contain the vault I was wondering about.

Right. That's in your save file. I'm not going to open that. Few to no others will, either. You could take a screen shot and post it. Ideally ASCII. If you post tiles, even other tiles players will not know what they are looking at unless they use the same tile set.

[Estie]

Thats one of the best vault types out there. It has 2 entrances to 2 distinct sub-areas, one in the top left and one in the bottom left. I would dig along the north border up to the top entrance and detect evil there.

There is a diggable path through all of the northern area and in each block are monsters, possibly deadly ones, as well as an entrance to a small cubby in the top left of each cell containing a monster as well as the best treasure items The cubbies can be opened from a hockeystick position, giving you the first move on the monster unless it can double move. Opening the next big cell otoh will always expose you to LOS.

The decision whether to enter and how far in to advance should be made at the vault entrance, after detecting evil and possibly eating the mushroom of second sight, depending on what you detect. Dangerous monsters with speed +20 anywhere are showstoppers; other than that, failure to get the TO rod off can lead to a grizzly death even in hockeystick position.

It is unlikely that you can clear the whole thing, but with a little luck you can make an advance from one or both entrances.

Edit: I checked again and saw that I mistook your staff of dispel evil for detect evil. So you only have 1 shot at detecting; in that case I would keep digging past the northern entrance, down the left border up to the middle, then eat the shroom. That way you get information about all the left side, including the southern entrance area.

With warriors, I carry staves of detect evil prior to ESP and squelch dispel evil staves. Knowing whats ahead is key to successful dungeoneering.

[Pete Mack]

Yeah, _Detect Evil is something you need in a case like this. A checkerboard or bubble vault is too good to pass up. The only really dangerous monster in the list you mentioned is Omarax. He can kill you in a single turn. If you can find a source of double cold resist, Scatha can't hurt you too badly. Otherwise, he does 244 damage with a single resist, so you can handle one breath if teleport away fails.

[PowerWyrm]

You don't have enough options to take on that vault. Only 4 CCWs and no temporary speed boost means that you won't stand a chance vs the ancient Ds, even with Gurthang equipped. So just leave that be, you'll get plenty of vaults later on.

[Diogenes]

THanks for the advice, all! Inthe end, I think I'll go with PowerWyrm's advice.

[AnonymousHero]

(Disclaimer: This is speaking from a perspective of wanting to win the game as efficiently as possible. If you just want to have fun... do your own thing and don't listen to anything anyone else says.)

THanks for the advice, all! Inthe end, I think I'll go with PowerWyrm's advice.

Statistics, etc. aside I would say that it really depends on how invested you are into the character. Personally, I like to take huge gambles in the early-to-mid game because you can always restart and nothing much will change (character-wise). You should only have invested a few hours at this point. (If it's taken you in-game weeks, then you're probably doing something wrong.)

Late-game... well, you've made it that far, so your character is obviously quite sturdy (or you've been superhumanly perfact at playing it). Interestingly, once you've got early-to-mid game down, the late game actually doesn't change that much... do the "I'm scared all the time, but kill enemies-of-opportunity when I can" thing.

Your only worry at that point is the two final must-kill bosses... which there is specific advice for, but let's worry about that when we/you get there.

[Estie]

There is no reason not to take a look, investing the mushroom. I would be hard pressed to find a better use for a mushroom of second sight than to scan a GV.

Going to the entrance is no risk and then you can see what you can see. It might be that Ancalagon is in one room and Osse in the other, then you can still abandon the attempt, but its more likely that there are just a bunch of orcs inside.

[Pete Mack]

Estie-
His problem wasn't the big guys. It's that he doesn't have enough to even handle the ancient dragons. (No Teleport other, and not enough healing/haste to kill them.)
Edit: it's worth holding back some supplies just in case you run across a vault. They have sufficiently good loot that they're worth a perceptible risk, especially early in the game. But without Teleport Other, you're kind of stuck. Do keep GP14K available just in case it shows up in the black market. Combined with a speed potion, your odds aren't bad of getting rid of a few instantly lethal monsters: ~.05*Pk, where Pk the chance of a lethal spell. Of course, if you get there before they wake up, your odds of success are 100%. It's why people like Rogue as a class.

[Estie]

Sure, but theres no reason not to take a look at least. An ancient dragon might be too much, but the first bubbles could hold orcs.