Gather more stat potions before diving deeper? CL33 DL50

[Grimborn]

Used to play Angband as a teen in the nineties, now I'm back to it, having a lot of fun. This forum is a super cool resource. Anyways, my question. I've gotten a Dunedain Rogue down to DL50, CL33 (would post a dump .. but currently at work). I've run into some pretty bad monsters but have picked up from this forum that the thing to do is TO, teleport, or just gtfo, and that way survive.

I've dived from like DL38 to DL50 just in the past one or two character levels, after reading how people recommend diving on here on the forums. However, my stats aren't so great yet. Strength is up there 18/high, same with dexterity, but constitution is still just 18 or so. Intelligence and wisdom are ~13-15. Do I need to hang around for a while at these current dungeon levels and wait to gather more stat potions? Or should I just keep diving fast? Do I actually need to go back down to 35-40, where I hear they are more common? I may have overlooked this.

Another question: I use the rod of probing to get monster info, after I sneak up close enough to have them in sight. Sometimes it will say they can do single turn damage of (3xx) or (5xx) etc, via spell or breath, etc. My current hp is 341, so I get out of there if it indicates single turn damage greater than that. But are these damage ratings always accurate? It seems like resistances modify them, etc., but I'm not sure. I know the equipment/inventory damage rating of your weapon is accurate, so I'm used to trusting these damage values that I see. But maybe the monster damage ratings aren't recalculated according to your resistances, etc.

Thanks in advance.

[fph]

Just my 2 cents (but I am not one of the best players here). DL50 is fine in my view -- there you will find also !augmentation, which will speed up statgain. But the real question at this point is how well-equipped you are. As soon as you have some speed, stealth (you are a rogue -- check) and some detection (ESP would be the best; detect monsters+see invisible is OK), you can go even deeper. Consider a wearing a =con if you aren't already doing it -- those extra HP can save your ass.

Those numbers are maximum unresisted damage dealt by a monster at full health (breaths are scaled down by the current health IIRC). Base resists (as well as temporary resists --- you may have found that spellbook at this point) reduce it to 1/3; higher resists are less reliable (they reduce it to 5/6 in the worst case, or some other weird fraction).

[AnonymousHero]

CON is (arguably) the most important stat (except perhaps speed, depending), so if you find any CON rings, use those to boost it.

EDIT: Of course you really should have the basic four resistances before going too deep. (Again, sorta-depending. Some classes can be reasonably safe even without those due to temporary resistance, but it requires great care.)

Generally speaking you should always be right on the edge of life/death -- just to keep you vigilant. Before attaining 20+ speed and +650 HP you will die once in a while just due to bad luck, but since you're playing relatively fast compared to the ultra-careful player you'll probably have better overall success rate.

[Estie]

There is no point in staying at that level and not going deeper. As you have noticed, there are nasty things about which you have to avoid. It doesnt get any nastier than 1-shot kill down at 90+, but the quality of items increases significantly. That doesnt mean you have to take every downstair asap, if a level has promising opportunities, by all means stay and take them.

For more specific counsel, post the dump.

[Werbaer]

Sometimes it will say they can do single turn damage of (3xx) or (5xx) etc, via spell or breath, etc. My current hp is 341, so I get out of there if it indicates single turn damage greater than that. But are these damage ratings always accurate? It seems like resistances modify them, etc., but I'm not sure.

It's the damage before taking your resistances into account.

If the number is yellow or green, you have some resistance, and will get less damage. If the number is red, you don't resist it.

If you have resistance, it depends on the damage type. For the elements (fire, cold, acid, lightning) and posion, resistance will reduce the damage to 1/3 of that number. For other damage types ("high resists"), the reduction is lower and random, and you'll take between 50% and 86% if resistant.

Spell damage is partly random. Some spell might do 15d15 damage (15 - 225); the upper limit (225) is shown by probing.

Breath attack damage depends on the (current) hit points of the monster. If it is at full health, it will do about the damage displayed. If it's hurt, damage will be lower. For monsters at your depth, damage will usually be halved when the monster is half dead. Very powerfull monsters will breath for maximum damage even it they are wounded.

[Grimborn]

Ahh. I didn't realize con would be so helpful early on, but I have realized it more lately. Sounds like it makes the most sense just to keep going down and be cautious. Made a dump, definitely interested in any feedback on this character's preparedness/suitability:

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=21228

On my last run (before I made this post) I came within 3 squares of a Vampire Lord, probed him, then got out ... and also Ren appeared out of nowhere. So I definitely know to watch out ... I also used my first scroll of banishment on 3 plasma hounds on that same level (who were in a vault). The Ren incident was scary because up until then I actually thought I was fine just constantly (or very frequently) casting my Detect Monsters. Did find some good stuff on that level, namely, the Large Metal Shield of Anarion (full basic resists, sustains). Also found a crown with ESP but it seems it messes with my stats too bad to be worth wearing.

[Pete Mack]

Yeah, you need CON badly. In the mean time, ride your stealth--elvenkind armor or shield would help. (Anarion is strictly worse at this point. Sustains are not all that useful, especially for a fragile character who needs to avoid melee.)
Beruthiel is junk--as is pretty much all your other equipment at home. You're never going to use a weapon that does less damage than your current one, which means all of them except possibly the scythe. And you're armor at home is garbage.

Carry those fire-branded bolts NOW. They'll really help for a weak character who needs to do damage at a distance, and soon enough you'll be able to make more whenever you want. You can kill Great Wyrms of Ice (or Swamp Wyrms) pretty easily with double resistance and branded ammo. But they show up a little deeper.

[Grimborn]

shite! I think I've sold elvenkind armor before, not realizing how important the stealth was. I'm admittedly hoarding artifacts right now, time to bite the bullet and get rid of them (sad ...)

[Grimborn]

See, I just found a ring of con though (+3), but it doesn't seem worth it to replace the ring of damage. I lose a ton of damage (70-100) at the gain of only like 20 hp. So it seems CON will take more patience?

[Derakon]

CON has accelerating returns: each point is worth more than the last, until you hit the cap. So as your CON improves (either by improving internal stats or by equipping gear with +CON), you should check back to see if adding more CON to your gear becomes worthwhile. 20 points is unlikely to make a difference unless it happens to put you over a threshold above which you can't be one-shot by certain enemies...but knowing that requires knowing a lot of details about how the game works.

[luneya]

On my last run (before I made this post) I came within 3 squares of a Vampire Lord, probed him, then got out ... and also Ren appeared out of nowhere. So I definitely know to watch out ... I also used my first scroll of banishment on 3 plasma hounds on that same level (who were in a vault). The Ren incident was scary because up until then I actually thought I was fine just constantly (or very frequently) casting my Detect Monsters.

Plain detect monsters only handles visible monsters. Nazgul are invisible. And if you're seeing them, then you're also in danger of running into other nasty invisibles, such as a pack of Dreads. If you were a mage, I'd say upgrade to reveal monsters rather than detect, but that might not be practical for a rogue at your level (but then, it might work; it's been a while since I played a rogue). The poor man's alternative is to carry a few staves of detect invisible (easily found in the dungeon or at your local magic shop), and use one of those alongside your detect monsters. Or just use your Holhenneth activation, which will also reveal everything.

[Pete Mack]

Most Nazgul are visible. But yes, there are a number of dangerous invisible undead. Use the Reveal monsters spell in MB3 (or else rods of Detection if your Mana pool is too low)
You're running into the downsides of the "diving exercise for newbies" type character I posted a week back. Giving up a couple points of STR/DEX in favor of CON (and for a rogue, a couple points of INT) makes the early game harder but the midgame easier. You'll need a LOT of con (8+ points) to get your HP up. In the meantime, rely on stealth, detection, and evasion. I recommend carrying rods of light for hallways until you get good HP and/or ESP. Monsters are much less likely to jump out of nowhere if you can see where you're going.

[PowerWyrm]

Beruthiel is junk.

Not when it is your only source of ESP, and even more in recent versions where it's not cursed anymore. I'd carry that as a swap item and use it before taking the stairs to detect stuff that's around when you arrive on the next level. I'd rather see the pack of plasma hounds that's in the same room than use the only turn I have before being in big trouble to detect them.

[Pete Mack]

Plasma hounds glow in the dark. You don't need ESP for them anymore when going down stairs.

[Estie]

People here have you all covered but they missed one thing:

You are wearing plain gloves. As a red book caster, gloves reduce your manapool by 1/3 unless they have either free action or a dexterity bonus. Rogues should never ever wear plain gloves.

Some gloves with strong properties might be worth taking the mana penality; a little AC isnt important enough to do so.