Diving exercise for newbies

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Pete Mack
    Prophet
    • Apr 2007
    • 6883

    Diving exercise for newbies

    The goal is to see how fast you can get to DL 20. Here's a sample starting character:
    Half-Orc Warrior, STR/DEX/CON 17/18/10. With this combination you get 4 blows with a dagger or main gauche.
    Birth options:
    No selling, no starting kit. With this you start with significantly more gold.
    Connected stairs for a basic escape option.

    Gear:
    Enough cheap armor for AC ~20.
    Extra torch
    10 flasks of oil for projectiles
    7 ?PD
    6 CLW
    1 !Hero
    1 ?Recall
    With this gear, you could pretty easily kill Bullroarer at CL 1 if you happen to see him before leveling up.


    I tried running this character.
    Game log
    DL 1. Found another 3 phase door and 4 CLW on DL 1. Leveled to CL 3 while looking for stairs. Had to kill more monsters than usual because everything is waking up. (i don't bother killing anything on early levels unless it's unavoidable.)
    DL 2 Kill Grip to reach CL 4. Now have 14 CLW and 12 PD.
    DL 3: Reach level 5 looking for stairs.
    DL 4: Reach CL 8 cleaning up after summoning trap.
    DL 5: Dagger(+5,+3) and ? Mapping. Damage now 34/turn and find stairs fast.
    DL 6: Downstairs in starting room. Take it immediately
    Dl 7: torch of brightness, CL 9
    DL 8: Lantern. Dump all torches.
    Mobbed by orcs, coming in from two directions, while trying to fight Wormtoungue. Fail to escape and die. Total time elapsed: ~10 minutes.
    Failed ecape after ambush is number one cause of early Warrior death.

    Post mortem: I'd have done better to chug CLW while boxed in by Wormtongue and orcs, then have only one attacker after Wormtongue teleported. Phase door was wrong choice.
    Attempt 2 to follow.
  • Pete Mack
    Prophet
    • Apr 2007
    • 6883

    #2
    Ă•Second attempt: similar starting gear, but with Main Gauche.
    DL 1: Reach CL 2, then ?Deep Descent. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about.
    DL 6: Lantern in start room. Nice. See some scouts. Wake one up with thrown !oil. Retreat around corner then kill in melee. CL 4. Rest for HP, second scout appears. CL 5. Other friends: CL 6. Summoning trap: CL 8. Ever burning lantern, then Sling of Accuracy (+15,+4). Well, it's better than flasks of oil.
    DL 7: Mauled by Wormtongue. (He manages to heal himself and casts lots of poison balls.) Forced to recall with no more CLW.
    DL7: Use ID !Speed.
    DL 8: CL 10, Use-ID CSW. ?Deep descent and down we go.
    DL 13: Now have 8 CSW, 8 CLW, 8 PD. Also wand of light. 2 quick stairs down
    DL 15: CL 11, then forced to flee up stairs by Ogres. Return to
    DL 15: 24 damage per turn is too little for this level. Beat my way through Grishnakh and friends and a guardian naga, to CL 15 HP 121. Something teleports me to
    DL 16: Kill Lagduf, mostly with iron shots (now doing 15 average damage after ? Damage scroll.) AU 2100 and down to last CLW potion and 3?PD. Time to recall.
    DL 16: Labyrinth level, fully mapped, with two objects and level feeling 3/4. One of the objects is a Halberd of venom doing 52/27 damage with 1.3 blows per round. Not great, but much better than 24 per round from an unenchanted main gauche.
    DL 17: Mobbed by Ulfast and some Mirkwood spiders. Forced to recall.
    DL 18: Forced to recall again by Mirkwood spiders. Lack of cure poison and only 26 damage is a problem. Can now afford a staff of teleportation, along with big stock of CLW. With such low damage output, I'm spending a lot of Healing.
    DL 18: CL 18, trap door. This time I can kill Ulfast, mostly with shots.
    DL 19: CL 19 after group of dark hounds, easy meat for a half-orc. CL 20.
    DL 20: CL 21
    DL 21: Amulet with -2 speed. Now I have a desperation case sourcen of free action that I can safely use-ID.
    DL 23: Rod of light. Now I can use archery in hallways. CL 22
    DL 24: Armor with rFire and rCold. Base 4 elemental resistance!

    This concludes the exercise. I don't really want to go deep with a character with only 10 base CON. It'd take a long time to reach decent HP. At this point I have 12000GP and CL 23, base 4 resistances and Free action (from use-ID boots). Biggest weakness is damage output, especially against monsters with poison resistance. Also missing is See Invisible, which will become a problem in another 6-10 levels.
    Edit:
    Playing time: roughly 1.5 hour. Keeping notes added significant time.
    Last edited by Pete Mack; October 26, 2017, 05:31.

    Comment

    • AnonymousHero
      Veteran
      • Jun 2007
      • 1393

      #3
      This is a great idea just to show new (or overly cautious) players... the truth.

      For those who are more video-inclined check out: [href=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFE88dxPZAA]Fizzix's video series[/url] (not sure if this the first one). Beware if you're wearing headphones -- the volume is turned waaaaay up.

      Comment

      • Pete Mack
        Prophet
        • Apr 2007
        • 6883

        #4
        Half-Orc warrior is one extreme. (Great melee, bad stealth and no detection.) HE/gnome/kobold rogue is another. With this character diving was a bit slower because monsters kept getting in the way. Absolutely everything woke up, and breeders occasionally blocked the path. With a rogue (or mage), nothing gets in the way, and you can be picky about targets. (Moreso with rogue, once detect object kicks in.)
        Edit:
        I'll have to do another play-by-play at some point, OR you can look up Eddie Grove's classic rgra post on Google: Tales of the Bold. An all-time classic post. (Cliff Stamp's 89K game turn NPP win with a Half-Troll ranger is another.)
        Last edited by Pete Mack; October 27, 2017, 01:01.

        Comment

        • PowerWyrm
          Prophet
          • Apr 2008
          • 2987

          #5
          In MAngband, you just take a half-orc warrior to the closest wilderness square at night with berserk strength/heroism combo and kill a vampire... instant level 21. I'm sure you can do the same in other variants.
          PWMAngband variant maintainer - check https://github.com/draconisPW/PWMAngband (or http://www.mangband.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9) to learn more about this new variant!

          Comment

          • Pete Mack
            Prophet
            • Apr 2007
            • 6883

            #6
            Sure, if there's a wilderness (or quests.) Killing a red naga in the Brandywine was the standard way to get started in ToME. Instant CL 7. I once got as far as killing Eol, around CL 30, with nothing but quests as a ToME Archer. (I did have to exploit the Wags quest for extra ego ammo.)

            Comment

            • Antoine
              Ironband/Quickband Maintainer
              • Nov 2007
              • 1010

              #7
              Originally posted by Pete Mack
              Playing time: roughly 1.5 hour. Keeping notes added significant time.
              It's not possible to get to DL20-odd faster than that?

              A.
              Ironband - http://angband.oook.cz/ironband/

              Comment

              • Pete Mack
                Prophet
                • Apr 2007
                • 6883

                #8
                Sure. I don't think it took nearly 90 minutes of playing time. I wasn't trying too hard because note-taking was distracting and time consuming, and I took a break in the middle. 30 minutes is more likely the time it takes if you're concentrated on the game.

                Comment

                • Diogenes
                  Scout
                  • Sep 2007
                  • 38

                  #9
                  Interesting excercise. My first character encoutered a weapon shop with no light weapons (I think the Tulwar was the lightest), so I rolled up another one which did have the starting package. Next time I'll also include the option where the shops take my stuff. (I really don't like the current settings.)

                  He was down at Dlev 20 in about 5000 turns (30 minutes of time), having an ego whip and Dragon Scale mail, but then died at the mouths of a 3-headed Hydra - the !CSW were not enough.

                  The good news is that I gaine levels much quicker. The bad news is: he also died a lot quicker.
                  Anyone seen my Longsword (4d5)?

                  Comment

                  • Derakon
                    Prophet
                    • Dec 2009
                    • 9022

                    #10
                    Hydras are nasty -- lots of HP and some fairly strong attacks. They're a good reason to carry a Staff of Teleportation at that depth.

                    Probably one of the reasons you were able to get to dlvl 20 in 30 minutes was because you didn't have to keep hauling stuff up to the town to sell.

                    Comment

                    • Pete Mack
                      Prophet
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 6883

                      #11
                      Yes, you will want _Tele for sure. Note that I bought it at the first opportunity, at DL 18. You can slog through hydras with a big stack of PD and CSW, phasing away to heal. And of course if you find a good early ego bow (or wand of frost bolts), you can kill them easily from a distance. They're vulnerable to cold, so frost bolts or cold branded weapons work particularly well.

                      Comment

                      • Pete Mack
                        Prophet
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 6883

                        #12
                        Take 2. HE Rogue, because HE can get 2.7 blows, while most other races get 2.0 at best
                        Starting options identical to above.
                        Gear:
                        MB1
                        ?Recall
                        10 oil
                        6 CLW
                        7 ?PD
                        Main Gauche
                        AC 20 (17+3)
                        Extra torch
                        !Heroism (Note: this serves two purposes: as a cure for fear, and as a buff if Bullroarer or the like shows up early.)
                        DL 1: Find stais fast, no kills
                        DL 2: Acolyte and apprentice mage for CL 2. CL3 Exploring, CL 4 from special room (use ID and monsters) Use ID Speed. Deep descent (2 scrolls)
                        DL 7: Stairs
                        DL 8: CL 5 from Nighthawk, 6 from BBD. Now have detect monsters, so can begin real dive. Deep Descent.
                        DL 13: DL 10 from huge group of wolves and hill orcs, but suppliea are exhausted, so recall to escape.
                        Town: 711 AU. Restock, but no good weapon. 12 CLW +staff. 9 PD, 12 !oil. Total kills: 57, or 6 per CL. Now have detect stairs, detect objects with 50% fail. Only suitable for good level feeling at this point.
                        DL 13: Maul of Slay Troll in starting room. Damage 25.5/54. Hope to find trolls.
                        DL 14: Level feeling 7, tons of monsters detected in every direction. Turns out to be jelly pit, but not before CL 13, and awl-pike of Slay Evil from Bullroarer. Damage 32/19, which is probably better than the maul. (Plenty of evil enemies to find.)
                        DL 15: Orfax drops Collanon. Use other deep descent because things are easy again, and advancement is slow. Kills: 130
                        DL 20: LF 8. Umbar twins in the distance. Will avoid them, having no way to do big damage. Quickly detect vault in a different direction. Vault monsters are easy, because of a big group of White Wolves and another of weak orcs.
                        Vault: Lt XBow of accuracy (+17,+11) (and bolts for 44 damage), along with enough weak ego armor to get rCold and rAcid. There's a Lance of *slay orc* with Free action, but it's way too heavy to be really useful. CL 16, Kills: 176.
                        DL 21: Quick stairs
                        DL 22: LF 7. The XBow will kill pretty much everything at this level easily. Rod of Detection, which will save Mana, and Rod of Light. Level feeling is from Vault with Vampire Lord, which I can't possibly handle. But Lagduf drops Lance of Eorlingas, for total speed +4, and 122/96/71 damage. That is *fantastic*, and Eorlingas is an endgame weapon (barely. I did use it once to kill Morgoth.)
                        This concludes the exercise, CL 18, DL 22, kills 209 turns 6500. I have Rbase, sort of, using a swap amulet.
                        Character can handle almost any at-level monster in melee; the rest will fall easily to Ring of Flames and bolts. Base speed +4 is extremely good for this level, and excellent stealth means picking fights carefully.

                        Elapsed Time: 1 hour. Again, note-taking really slowed play.

                        Comment

                        • Pete Mack
                          Prophet
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 6883

                          #13
                          @Diogenes--
                          use-ID makes selling even more tedious. You have to ID all those mystery weapons that show up and have no other conceivable use. A War Hammer of Slay orc, for example. And then it may just be cursed... With no-selling, you can just drop these l, and wait for a *slay* weapon to show up where the slay is obvious, and the weapon actually may have real use. Only branded weapons and slay evil are anything you care about, and those are both trivial to ID.

                          Comment

                          • Diogenes
                            Scout
                            • Sep 2007
                            • 38

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Pete Mack
                            and wait for a *slay* weapon to show up where the slay is obvious,
                            Sounds like a good tip. Now I only have to convince the RNG to grant me such.

                            I still like the half-orc warrior challenge. So far the first attempt has been the most succesful - all others die at about Clev 10 / Dlev 6 to a group of monsters (the latest attempt ran into a group of halforcs when at Clev7.
                            Anyone seen my Longsword (4d5)?

                            Comment

                            • bdgamer
                              Adept
                              • Nov 2015
                              • 100

                              #15
                              I did this exercise just now, and was going very well all the way down to 20. I had still not gotten any truly good damage output, and ate it once I ran into a ghoul thinking that I had free action when I really didn't. oops.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              😀
                              😂
                              🥰
                              😘
                              🤢
                              😎
                              😞
                              😡
                              👍
                              👎