Items: New and obsolete (?) ones

[NimrodPE]

Sooner or later, while clearing a level, I always stumble upon a "Summon XY"-trap, which I earlier triggered to get some extra exp (and hopefully items) until that nearly killed me. Learned the lesson. Then I thought: It would be nice to trigger those summon-traps nonetheless because the only real downside is that the summoned monsters surround you instantly.

Nick, how about an item (let's say: Magic Ball?) to activate a trap from a certain distance? I'm thinking about something to roll/throw onto the tile like one would in RL trigger traps.

Then concerning an obsolete item. Maybe it's just my lack of game knowledge but what are "ITEMS of Door Destruction" good for? So far there were no "un-openable" doors and if such doors appear deeper in the dungeon why do those items show up on dl1+? Sure, deleting an item for good is a tad sad because you delete game history but right now I fail to see a reason for those.

[Derakon]

Then concerning an obsolete item. Maybe it's just my lack of game knowledge but what are "ITEMS of Door Destruction" good for? So far there were no "un-openable" doors and if such doors appear deeper in the dungeon why do those items show up on dl1+? Sure, deleting an item for good is a tad sad because you delete game history but right now I fail to see a reason for those.

These do have a niche use: they let you open doors from a distance. This can be useful if you want to engage in ranged combat with an enemy but there's a door in the way. That is, admittedly, extremely niche. I think it would suffice to let Stone to Mud work on doors, which IIRC it doesn't currently.

[Sky]

fuse S2M, Stun and DD into a Wand Of Impact. Also conveniently activates traps.

[kandrc]

how about an item (let's say: Magic Ball?) to activate a trap from a certain distance? I'm thinking about something to roll/throw onto the tile like one would in RL trigger traps.

Yes, I was just this past weekend rolling magic balls throughout my local mall. I thought I was doing a great service until I set off a fire trap just as a woman stepped out of Yankee Candle. The flames ignited her newly acquired wares, which she threw in fearful surprise. The burning candles wound up back in the store where much of the stock was alit, quickly filling the entire mall with the scents of vanilla and pumpkin spice. I explained to the woman and the Yankee Candle staff that I was merely using my magic balls to set off some traps in the interest of public safety. They thanked me for my diligence and we all had a little laugh.

There were no other incidents, but nonetheless, mall security showed up in an electric golf cart and asked me to leave because (they claimed) they were unable to deal with all of my orc summons. I swear, mall cops are weak. Good thing this was a level 1 mall. If I had been somewhere more advanced, like Mall of America, there's no way that mall cops could handle, for instance, Great Wyrms. Anyway, I tried to explain that I was doing this for safety, and one of the girls from Yankee Candle even showed up and told him about how I'd saved her store, but he insisted that I was somehow responsible and escorted me off the premises. Now the mall has filed for a restraining order against me. The worst part is, that mall is the only place around here to get an Auntie Anne's pretzel; now what will I do?

Anyway, yeah. I'm with Nimrod. It would be great to have the just-like-real-life mechanic of rolling magic balls over traps to set them off.

[Antoine]

How about just disarming them next time?

A.

[debo]

How about just disarming them next time?

A.

I'm pretty sure you can't disarm traps anymore.

[NimrodPE]

Anyway, yeah. I'm with Nimrod. It would be great to have the just-like-real-life mechanic of rolling magic balls over traps to set them off.

"Magic Ball" was admittedly a bad idea for a name especially because those "magic balls" hurt your own anatomy. Sorry for not thinking about this pun (magic BALLS) but I'm neither a native english speaker nor did I know that this triggered your manly manhood.

Anyway.

It's not about disarming, this isn't the problem because I usually dig around traps that I don't want to touch.

Again, my point: It would be nice to trigger "Summon XY"-traps without being in the centre of the summoned creatures. Now how do we solve the problem? By activating the trap mechanism from a distance.

I didn't want to say: Code that and put it into v4.2. It was just an idea and if someone doesn't want to use a mechanism/item/spell/whatever - well, don't use it.

[Derakon]

"Magic Ball" was admittedly a bad idea for a name especially because those "magic balls" hurt your own anatomy. Sorry for not thinking about this pun (magic BALLS) but I'm neither a native english speaker nor did I know that this triggered your manly manhood.

It's not so much the pun as the claim that you use magic balls to disarm traps in real life (a.k.a. reality). The post was just meant as a gentle jest.

My question, regarding triggering traps remotely, is how you would handle other trap types. They don't all have sensible effects if triggered remotely, right?

[debo]

It's not so much the pun as the claim that you use magic balls to disarm traps in real life (a.k.a. reality). The post was just meant as a gentle jest.

My question, regarding triggering traps remotely, is how you would handle other trap types. They don't all have sensible effects if triggered remotely, right?

Sounds like the perfect opportunity for a ROCKET TRAP.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

I think it would suffice to let Stone to Mud work on doors, which IIRC it doesn't currently.

You do not recall correctly. Stone to Mud DOES work on doors.

[dreembeard]

Yes, I was just this past weekend rolling magic balls throughout my local mall. I thought I was doing a great service until I set off a fire trap just as a woman stepped out of Yankee Candle. The flames ignited her newly acquired wares, which she threw in fearful surprise. The burning candles wound up back in the store where much of the stock was alit, quickly filling the entire mall with the scents of vanilla and pumpkin spice. I explained to the woman and the Yankee Candle staff that I was merely using my magic balls to set off some traps in the interest of public safety. They thanked me for my diligence and we all had a little laugh.

There were no other incidents, but nonetheless, mall security showed up in an electric golf cart and asked me to leave because (they claimed) they were unable to deal with all of my orc summons. I swear, mall cops are weak. Good thing this was a level 1 mall. If I had been somewhere more advanced, like Mall of America, there's no way that mall cops could handle, for instance, Great Wyrms. Anyway, I tried to explain that I was doing this for safety, and one of the girls from Yankee Candle even showed up and told him about how I'd saved her store, but he insisted that I was somehow responsible and escorted me off the premises. Now the mall has filed for a restraining order against me. The worst part is, that mall is the only place around here to get an Auntie Anne's pretzel; now what will I do?

We do not have a big mall here in Bree, but I sympathize with your plight.
Maybe you should write a letter to Auntie Anne.

Also, I *love* your story-telling. Any plans for an Angband variant?

--------------------
Melee is for warriors.
We paladins prefer mêlée.

[dreembeard]

The Evil of the Ring.... of stone-to-mud

"Magic Ball" was admittedly (...)

It's not about disarming, this isn't the problem because I usually dig around traps that I don't want to touch.
(...)

Exactly what I see my characters doing! As soon as they get their greedy hands on a ring of digging, any trap that harbors the least bit of risk is circumvented, preferably by melting away the granite next to it, instead of trying to disarm the trap, or performing some good, honest digging. No matter how often I scorn them for such despicable conduct, they do it again whenever my vigilance wanes for a moment.

In this respect, I feel that the spell of stone-to-mud and the implements harboring it are a veritable pest in angband. Who other than Morgoth himself, the giant bard whose song makes mountains crack and crumble, could have inspired such magic? It is most certainly not Elvish, and even Aule will have been enraged when he saw how wands of stone-to-mud turned all his precious Implements of Digging into junk items.

And of all the items enchanted with this accursed magic, the rings are the worst, combining in them the power of digger and rod. I suspect that they were forged by the necromancer of Dol-Guldur himself, and will ultimately answer only to The One!

--------------------
Melee is for warriors.
We paladins prefer mêlée.

[fph]

fuse S2M, Stun and DD into a Wand Of Impact. Also conveniently activates traps.

+1 to this idea. It would make for a great early-level item, one that is useful for a good part of the game. It would also help with id-by-use, and with the problem "found an early vault, have no shovel with me".

[NimrodPE]

Ok, people, as creator of this post I think we have strayed too far from what I wanted us to think about. If there is an "us". For me - it is. Definitely.

So, let's cut the story-telling (sorry Dreambeard, although I really love your contributions, they are not helping here) and those jests and let's get back to square one for the following reason: either we may start to think about implementing a new item or we dismiss that.

1) Concerning problem Alpha: A dungeon crawler (let's name her/him HERO) finds a trap. Our HERO can neither disarm nor circumvent it, because HERO wants to go past this trap.
2) Question: How does HERO get past this trap?
3) Solution: HERO triggers trap from a "safe" distance, where the range of "safe" is arbitrarily.
4) This leads to problem Beta: How do you disarm a trap from distance when there is no such method? (We arbitrarily circumvent now the philosophical question if HERO could think about something nonexistent. I say HERO can, but that's for each of you to decide alone just like Schrödingers Cat. Feed it)

So, now that we are past puns, I need to tell you that I thought about traps like something to be triggered physically. Like with a button, a tripwire, maybe even a "magical laserbeam".

Thanks to Derakon I now understand that the concept of "traps" in angband is not innately physical.

5) Meaning: Traps can also be completely magical (= non-physical) and thus traps are not triggered by physical interaction.
6) This leads to: Therefore a "trap" can be completely magical, meaning in its entirety this "trap" can be understood just like a "field of (electromagnetical) energy" which interacts with HERO in some way. (see 7))

This makes something like my "magic ball" obsolete. Ok, got that, but if HERO walks on a trap-tile he disarms or triggers the trap automatically, even when wearing nothing and possessing zero items. I experienced that in one of my first attempts to play angband when I haven't even read a guide ;D

7) Which leads to: Traps are triggered by HERO in whatever way.

Now what I wanted to discuss was: Is there a need from the community to create/invent/make an "item" or "ability" which enables HERO to trigger traps from a "safe" distance?

My train of thought (yes, DT rocks, yay, pun, wohoo, you may keep it!): If I'd be HERO, I would think about a solution to this problem because as HERO I have only one life - this one. So dealing with deadly traps as safe as possible would be my number 1 priority IF I must deal with a specific trap.

But ss player... Well, I can have lots of HEROs.

Which is why I tried to think about an in-game-solution just like you do when playing Pen&Paper (which is where I hail from).

Now concerning some answers:
@Sky: Although I really appreciate your idea I don't think that I have enough angband-experience to support or deny your idea. But right now you are #1 contributer. Thank you!
@kandrc: Not helping.
@Derakon: Thank you for broadening my view and helping me understand the greater concept, also concerning the niche use of Stone to Mud/DD, which gives me enough reason to keep those items in the game.

Now concerning this post:
As far as I can see "we" do not need a new (merged) item/ability which is able to disarm traps from a "safe" distance.

Fine by me, I learned my lesson: Don't make suggestions which could contribute something new to the game because people won't like it.

8) Therefore: Post closed and abandoned at least by me.

[Derakon]

Aww, I don't think people didn't like your suggestion, more that they were more interested in being silly than in giving it serious consideration. But I'm sure that Nick and the other regular contributors read your post and mentally filed it away in their vast lists of ideas.

My big concern with any method of remotely triggering traps is, how do we make certain that this doesn't become just a gear check that renders traps irrelevant? That is, what's to stop me from carrying a big ol' pile of magic balls (or whatever the item is) and triggering every trap with them? How do we make the decision to remotely trigger a trap vs. interact with it some other way into an interesting decision?