Newb question: Strategies against uniques

[NimrodPE]

Hi everyone

Right now I'm playing HE Warrior and I try to deep-delve to get him as many levels as fast as possible.

My problem now is: Unique monsters appear on almost every level and I don't want to kill them because of Morgoth. I've heard he'd summon uniques.

Question: Is there a good strategy to get rid of uniques without killing them or leave/re-enter the level? Just teleporting myself/them away doesn't help much. Or shouldn't I care about Morgoth later and just slay them?

Thanks for your help!

[PowerWyrm]

Just slay them.

[Estie]

Morgoth summons uniques only from the ones you leave alive. If you kill all of them, he wont summon any (but instead he will summon some greater undead).
It is possible to leave alive some harmless uniques for M to summon and kill all high ones, making sure he wastes a turn when he uses unique summoning, but it is by no means necessary. It is easier to just leave the nasty uniques alive - when he summons any in the fight, get out of there or destruct, same as when he summons greater demons or dragons.

[fph]

The old-style, traditional approach would be "kill all uniques before you reach dlvl100 to kill Morgoth". This is slow and tedious, and many people here argue that overall it is more dangerous than just getting to Morgoth more quickly and dealing with the uniques when he summons them.

If Morgoth summons something dangerous, teleport him (Morgoth) away (using a source of Teleport Other), then *destroy* the area to get rid of the uniques. Or teleport the unique away. Or teleport yourself away, but this is far more dangerous because it can land you next to a previously-teleported unique. To buy a few more turns, you can phase door (assuming you are fighting in a *destruct*ed area), and then deal with the uniques one by one when they enter your line of sight.

Keep in mind that every time you let both Morgoth *and* a dangerous unique take a turn against you at the same time, you are taking a big risk. To survive the battle against Morgoth you are going to need enough speed and "battlefield control" to avoid it.

[NimrodPE]

First of all: Thanks guys, now that makes it much easier!

Keep in mind that every time you let both Morgoth *and* a dangerous unique take a turn against you at the same time, you are taking a big risk.

Yes, this killed me 2 days ago, although I was fighting a 9-headed Hydra (hey it's still an "M") and a D (ancient old gold dragon). Thought I could handle them with 650 hp and what you know: 2 button presses later the tombstone grinned.

Next question, concerning "dangerous" uniques: Right now I've never been past DL43 and the highest uniques I've seen so far are Glaurung and that Umber Hulk or Earth Spirit "King". Which uniques (except for the Tarrasque) should I absolutely avoid?

[Derakon]

Next question, concerning "dangerous" uniques: Right now I've never been past DL43 and the highest uniques I've seen so far are Glaurung and that Umber Hulk or Earth Spirit "King". Which uniques (except for the Tarrasque) should I absolutely avoid?

Whichever ones represent an unacceptable threat level to you with your current stats, gear, and level. Look at their abilities and decide based on what you see there. I'd recommend turning on the "cheat" to know monster abilities, which is more like letting you catch up with a bunch of rote memorization that more experienced players have already done. But if you aren't willing to do that, carry a Rod of Probing and use it on all monsters (not just uniques) that you haven't encountered before. Look for high-damage spells/breaths and nasty melee effects like confusion. And if a monster makes you nervous, you should probably avoid it.

[Estie]

There is no simple answer. When you encounter not previously seen uniques, obviously you want to approach them with utmost care. If you have +20 speed, 600+ health and a good way to escape, you can test any unique and see what they do.

Most uniques have a good chance for artifact drops or high egos when killed deep in the dungeon. That is a good reason to take them on; however, if they are very tough, it might not be worth the effort - the risk and consumables needed - to do so. So ideally, you want to kill uniques that you have little trouble to defeat as deep in the dungeon as possible.

There is no "absolute" avoid, not even the Tarrasque. Under the right circumstances, it can be easy to kill, namely if you happen to have both fire and cold immunity in your kit.

There are many uniques that can be terribly dangerous, but become very easy under the right circumstances. For example, having fire immunity makes a huge difference with many uniques like balrogs or the Phoenix, or Q can be a pain or simple if you get him in a hockeystick position and have enough ranged power to kill.

I have a rule of thumb to not fight uniques in vaults. When cracking a vault, you can expect a large amount of good items, and when you fight uniques, you must be ready to use phase doors, teleport or destruct or whatever, things that threaten to force you away from looting your vault. So I rather teleport them out and fight them at another time, even if I dont expect many problems with them now.

There are many uniques in the top tier with Tarrasque; L, U, V, s, C, A, P, S, D, Q, W, the point where you cut off the top tier is a bit arbitrary.

[Sky]

uniques are a good source of drops; the longer you keep them alive, the better drops you will have. however, you need those drops to go ahead in the dungeon.

[Philip]

For the most part the relative quality of a given unique drop goes down as time goes on. Sure, good item is better deeper than shallower, since it's probably an ego at least by then, and excellent is also better deeper. The thing is, everything is much better as time goes on. The value of a guaranteed good object over a replacement object is much much lower than it is early on.

Of course, uniques are also hard to kill, so aside from some notable punching bags and a couple monsters worth fighting early on the off chance they give you something truly great without wasting too much time when they kill you, ignore them until you can take them with minimal consumable loss. Figure out the likely consumable requirement by doing what Derakon says, information wants to be free.

[Pete Mack]

Uniques worth killing:
Bullroarer (low HP, multiple "good" drop early.)
Wormtongue (first "excellent" drop. May drop a decent ego bow, if killed a little deeper than native.)
Some orc uniques
Mim, if you have an ego bow
Smaug & company (big "good" drops)

Beyond that, there's no significant benefit to killing any particular unique. Pick em off as targets of opportunity (if they are easy to kill, and not too far out of your way.)

All that said, there's one case where killing uniques is a bigger deal: HE Mage. You are so desperate for EXP, and uniques are a relatively cheap way to get it for a near end-game-strong character around CL 40-45.

[flechette]

I almost always leave the Queen Ant alive, since she summons very weak monsters and can quickly fill empty spaces with weak monsters. Late game, especially against Morgoth, she's more of a weakness to him than anything else.

[NimrodPE]

I almost always leave the Queen Ant alive, since she summons very weak monsters and can quickly fill empty spaces with weak monsters. Late game, especially against Morgoth, she's more of a weakness to him than anything else.

I'll remember it for the next time, thanks ;D

And again: Thanks for alle the strategies. Right now my HE-warrior is cl37 on dl37 maxxing out stats. In the last 2 days I've slain Smaug (and avenged the former HE-warrior which he killed), Ariel, maias, a lesser Balrog, the Queen Ant and some other "harder" creatures, but all without too much trouble. +8 speed, Andúril and very good to excellent stealth really pays off.

[Pete Mack]

A Max stat warrior is pretty much invulnerable to the likes of Smaug. Later on, warriors need to be a bit more careful of basic elemental attacks, as it only takes two shots at 533 damage to really wreck your day. (I think I only killed the Tarrasque once as a warrior, when I happened to have both fire and cold immunity.)

[NimrodPE]

Later on, warriors need to be a bit more careful of basic elemental attacks, ...

Which is why I never go deeper than 1250ft without at least one "+" on all basic resistances. Right now my Warrior is sporting Leather Shield of Celegorm and Chain Mail of Arvendui.

Missing resistances: Sound, Chaos, Nether (of which Nether and sound aren't a concern from what I've heard) and some minor issues like Stun.

[Pete Mack]

Nether and sound resistance are in the "nice to have" category: there are a number of monsters that breathe sound for 500 damage, and a handful that breathe nether for 500-550. (Dracolich, Omarax, Ossë)