simple question on paralyzing

[quarague]

Just lost a char on d1 to a floating eye
There was a change done to the way paralyze works a few versions ago. I thought you get paralyzed for a couple of turns, then you get the message 'you can move again' then you get a turn and only after your turn does the monster that paralyzed you gets another turn. This allows you to get away (if you survive long enough until the paralyze wears off). If you don't move away or there are other monsters around you might still be screwed.
However this doesn't seem to be the way it works. I got the message 'you can move again' but then it was the floating eyes turn which paralyzed me again without giving me a turn.
So question: is my expectation of how paralyze works wrong or is this some bug in turn order?
I think if the game works as intended, the guaranteed turn would be a big improved for newbie friendliness and learning. As is, a char that walks next to a floating eye will frequently still die without getting another turn although each paralyze only last for a couple of turns.

[PowerWyrm]

Monsters now paralyze for a fixed duration, any extra attempt to paralyze doesn't affect the counter. Also monsters have some variability in their speed, so a floating eye (+0 speed) could actually be slower (-2 speed) or faster (+2 speed) than an average character. That's probably what happend if the floating eye got a turn before your char.

[Pete Mack]

I think I prefer the old model. The notion that meleeinhg a floating eye is safe for a low-level character (unless you are playing a gnome) just feels...wrong.

[Derakon]

I think I prefer the old model. The notion that meleeinhg a floating eye is safe for a low-level character (unless you are playing a gnome) just feels...wrong.

Doesn't the floating eye's gaze attack do 1 damage in current Angband? So it's not exactly safe now, since if you get paralyzed you're in serious danger of running out of HP before you get a turn.

The old days of getting chain-paralyzed and having to mash spacebar until you starved to death were dumb.

[Pete Mack]

I have no problem with the 1d1 damage. It's the whole guaranteed-wakeup thing that gets me.

[Derakon]

I have no problem with the 1d1 damage. It's the whole guaranteed-wakeup thing that gets me.

Simple solution: make Floating Eyes fast. That "fixes" the local problem (of floating eyes not being instadeath to unarmored melee-ers) without touching the overall issue of chain-paralysis in general not being fun to deal with.

I'm not sure we really want to have a nigh-guaranteed-instadeath melee enemy at dlvl1 considering everyone's running around with radius-1 torches, though.

[fizzix]

I'm not sure we really want to have a nigh-guaranteed-instadeath melee enemy at dlvl1 considering everyone's running around with radius-1 torches, though.

It's the radius 1 torch that forces our hand here. Floating eyes then just become a instakill trap in the early dungeon.

[Derakon]

Maybe if we had a way to force floating eyes to only be generated in rooms? Then the player could usually work around them and at least would not be in danger of accidentally walking into one.

[fizzix]

Maybe if we had a way to force floating eyes to only be generated in rooms? Then the player could usually work around them and at least would not be in danger of accidentally walking into one.

Non-infravision classes would still have problems, right?

[Derakon]

Non-infravision classes would still have problems, right?

Rooms on level 1 are always lit, on level 2 almost always, and after that point all players should have enough armor to usually dodge floating eye attacks.

[Pete Mack]

Non-infravision classes would still have problems, right?

Yes. This is one reason why it used to be possible to buy lanterns in the general store.
Otherwise, it's just not correct that a floating eye in a hallway is impassible. You can throw oil at it. You can throw shot at it. Hell, you could throw iron spikes at it in the old days. Or you could just take a different route. None of this seems a good reason to get rid of old-style paralysis. Finally, one pretty reliable defense against floating eyes was a high enough combination of AC and saving throw. Eventually, you'd get out of lock. And sometimes you die to bad luck for staying too shallow for too long, to either an eye or a summoning trap.

[Egavactip]

The way it is now is just fine.

[Pete Mack]

The way it is now is just fine.

Paralysis used to be really dangerous-any mistake and you were most likely dead. Now, unless you get unlucky, or you are really getting pounded on, you will probably survive. It's a major game change, especially between 1000' and 1750'.

[quarague]

I thought the idea of floating eyes was to introduce the concept of paralyze to new players. The new player encounters a floating eye, learns that paralyze is very dangerous although this first encounter is usually not lethal. If he encounters another monster that paralyzes he will be much more careful around it.
What other players are proposing looks like: newbie player stumbles through d1, steps next to the wrong monster, instant death. Doesn't seem like fun or good design to me.

[Will]

If a monster you can't detect can insta-kill you on dlvl 1 because of a game element you have no chance to resist, I'd say that the definition of a design flaw.

I don't think there's an issue with how paralysis works, btw. I think there's an issue with torches.

Basically if you willingly get close to a 'e' and die, it's live and learn (or die and learn, if you prefer). If the game throws you against a 'e' and it means guaranteed death, it's a design flaw.

This being said I think there are other things to think about than the first couple of levels when you die after having invested 5 minutes of playing time.