Infravision vs Telepathy?

[Pete Mack]

Well, Sil only does it for a limited class of monsters, and to really use it, you need to swap between 4 (well really 3) different weapons periodically: Nargothrond, Final Rest, Doriath.

"Listen" in Sil is pretty good too. But it still doesn't help with the fact that there's a much greater instadeath possibility in Angband than in Sil. There are only a handful of monsters that can do 40 projected damage in a single turn. Although combined with the cone-shaped attenuated breaths, it might work. Rods of light become completely mandatory for all characters. And Archery vs Morgoth becomes very impossible because of limited light distances in destroyed areas and tunneled rock. Might be worth whipping it up as a challenge. (Remove detection. Remove ESP. Keep Infravision (even Sil has that, more or less. Limited projected from long range.)

That said, you should still get monster detection from rare staves or from !enlightenment, or Vaults become impossible.

[AnonymousHero]

Well, Sil only does it for a limited class of monsters, and to really use it, you need to swap between 4 (well really 3) different weapons periodically: Nargothrond, Final Rest, Doriath.

"Listen" in Sil is pretty good too. But it still doesn't help with the fact that there's a much greater instadeath possibility in Angband than in Sil. There are only a handful of monsters that can do 40 projected damage in a single turn. Although combined with the cone-shaped attenuated breaths, it might work. Rods of light become completely mandatory for all characters. And Archery vs Morgoth becomes very impossible because of limited light distances in destroyed areas and tunneled rock. Might be worth whipping it up as a challenge. (Remove detection. Remove ESP. Keep Infravision (even Sil has that, more or less. Limited projected from long range.)

That said, you should still get monster detection from rare staves or from !enlightenment, or Vaults become impossible.

I think I generally agree (for once!). I haven't played Sil much, but the "fuzzy" monster detection from Listen/Perception(?) was amazingly appropriate thematically and fantastic in a "I'm not sure what's going to happen next" way. I have no idea how it would feed into "balance" in Angband.

EDIT: Alright, thinking further: It would be amazing to play a version of Angband where Stealth worked "symmetrically". The monsters can occasionally sense an '@' (with certain powers), you get to occasionally see an 'R' or a 'G' or a 'D' or a '*' if you can't identify the specific noise. Of course the balance would (initially) have be shifted hugely in favor of the @, but think of the possibilities! (There would have to be some sort of limit to "monster has a infinite lock on player".)

[Pete Mack]

Well, you are pretty much describing Sil. It is a very different game, and is much more diffucult. I don't think it would be possible to win with 100 (or even 50) levels played that way. You are pretty much required to take risks, which means long term survival is essentially impossible. The one big difference left would be escapes, which are few and far between in Sil. Only Tele level with significant damage damage (from horn of blasting at floor.)