Prices

[Pete Mack]

Derakon--it is not a problem. Neither is a binomial distribution, but it's slightly harder to calculate.

[Derakon]

Uhm.. as a mathematician, I am afraid that "a number between 0 and 4 according to normal distribution" means absolutely nothing. A normal distribution is a probability measure on the set of real numbers, not on a discrete set like {0,1,2,3,4}.

I believe that the standard deviation used for Angband's "normally-distributed random number" is based on the range of valid values, so e.g. if your range is 0-8 then it might use a standard deviation of 2, or something like that. And yeah, the fact that we don't use floating point makes the distribution rather more chunky than a true normal distribution, but is it so hard to mentally substitute "approximation of a normal distribution" in?

[Estie]

I have seen (and bought) speed boots from armor shop, but with low Pval.

I disagree that speedboots are worth more than !augmentaition; the reason being that you only need them once, you have a (good) pair you dont need another, while you want multiple potions. So when you see them in shop, they are either worth a ton or nothing; the potion is worth half a ton, half a ton, ...., eventually nothing. On average, the potion is worth more.

[Pete Mack]

Presumably it means binomial.

[fph]

OTOH it also used to be flat distribution of 1d10 for the PVAL, now it is "normal distribution", so getting one with +10 is still rare. You can find many with low PVAL, but getting one with high PVAL is still rare. ego-item.txt says "values:SPEED[2+M8]" and "M4 uses the m_bonus function to generate a number between 0 and 4 according to a normal distribution" (0-8 in case of speed boots).

Uhm.. as a mathematician, I am afraid that "a number between 0 and 4 according to normal distribution" means absolutely nothing. A normal distribution is a probability measure on the set of real numbers, not on a discrete set like {0,1,2,3,4}.

[Timo Pietilä]

Much more rare.

In 3.0.5, items in normal shops were treated as if found at 250'. So you mainly got plain objects, sometimes magic ones, very rarely ego items, very very rarely powerfull ego items like Boots of Speed.

Black Market used to pick a level between 1250' and 2500' for object ganeration. Great items could show up (especially since plain ones get discarded), but they were still very rare.

Nowadays, stores create objects based on a much higher creation level. And it looks like odds for powerfull ego items to be found in the dungeon have increased a lot, so the show up much more often in the shops.

I had several winners back then when i wrote in my notes "no Boots of speed found at all", while today it isn't that rare to find several on one dungeon level.

OTOH it also used to be flat distribution of 1d10 for the PVAL, now it is "normal distribution", so getting one with +10 is still rare. You can find many with low PVAL, but getting one with high PVAL is still rare. ego-item.txt says "values:SPEED[2+M8]" and "M4 uses the m_bonus function to generate a number between 0 and 4 according to a normal distribution" (0-8 in case of speed boots).

[Werbaer]

Surprisingly often, it used to be more rare, or at least I think they used to be more rare.

Much more rare.

In 3.0.5, items in normal shops were treated as if found at 250'. So you mainly got plain objects, sometimes magic ones, very rarely ego items, very very rarely powerfull ego items like Boots of Speed.

Black Market used to pick a level between 1250' and 2500' for object ganeration. Great items could show up (especially since plain ones get discarded), but they were still very rare.

Nowadays, stores create objects based on a much higher creation level. And it looks like odds for powerfull ego items to be found in the dungeon have increased a lot, so the show up much more often in the shops.

I had several winners back then when i wrote in my notes "no Boots of speed found at all", while today it isn't that rare to find several on one dungeon level.

[Pete Mack]

They show up from time to time. I had one game where two +6 pairs showed up. I am pretty sure they are more valuable than (say) a potion of augmentation.

[Timo Pietilä]

Have you seen boots of speed in the armor shop? They're very rare there, but they do sometimes spawn.

Surprisingly often, it used to be more rare, or at least I think they used to be more rare.

Of course that could be change in my playing style too. I now recall quite often, sometimes for no reason other than to replenish something trivial (like arrows in quiver).

[Werbaer]

Speed used to be very pricey a long time ago.

A note from one of my 3.0.5 winners:
"2650', clev 37 - Boots of Speed (+8) in the Black Market for 1,050,000 Au. Twice as much as i have."

Boots of Speed were alos much rarer in old days. That character used Boots of Stability until 4850', when he replaced them with Dal-i-thalion "for a few more SP (less weight)".

[Derakon]

In my own experience, I have never once been able to buy boots of speed from the shop in the early game.

Have you seen boots of speed in the armor shop? They're very rare there, but they do sometimes spawn.

Boots of speed in the black market are more common, but of course also a lot more expensive. I don't have a problem with the price of black market speed boots.

[Timo Pietilä]

Speed IMO is underpriced.

I concur that statement. I have also seen BoS in shops with very low prices (IMO) compared to other things. You could easily double the prices and they would still be worth buying.

[PowerWyrm]

So I bought some boots of speed +9 just now for around 33,000 or so. yesterday a defender was well over 100,000. Surely this is crazy?

Speed IMO is underpriced. The Defender has a high value because it has full base, FA, SI, regen, stealth, extra hit/dam/ac. A lot of properties will inflate the object power.

[Pete Mack]

It also matters a lot which shop they turn up in. The Black Market is 3x more expensive than the armorer or weaponsmith.

[Egavactip]

In my own experience, I have never once been able to buy boots of speed from the shop in the early game.

But that is beside the point. Boots of speed should be really expensive to buy because they are prime gear.