Ironman Rogue

[StMicah]

I've been playing rogues on and off as I've learned to play ironman the last few months. However, I haven't been very lucky or successful (in part because I've been playing rogue hobbits) and have either been overpowered as I descended or have done something stupid that resulted in death (because of low HP).

Now, I am moderately confident about Daozhi, a high-elf rogue, who just finished dlvl 55. I have a base speed of 20 with a stack of —speed and some pretty decent auxiliary equipment. But need a bunch more !CON or some +CON equipment. I assume I'll find some as I descend lower.

Are there any nonobvious concerns I should know about? Obviously, I'm staying away from anything that can instadeath me and, for the most part, am killing only things I can take out in under 2 (or safely in 3) rounds. Unless, the baddy is someone annoying like Harowen.

Also, I don't have much experience with Tensers as a rouge. Are the buff spells helpful at this stage? what success rate will the elemental brand spell have if I max INT and make it to about clvl 45?

[Pete Mack]

The buff spells are always important, though with low HP I might not use BERSERK, just HERO and SHIELD.
Branded ammo is critical too. With that, BERSERK is a sure bet.

[StMicah]

I won. A hard fought victory because I didn't find much in the way of damage output in a melee weapon. I had high hopes in finding a cool randarts weapon in the dlvl 90s but nothing really surfaced.

Perhaps now, it's time to figure out the paladin class.

[Pete Mack]

Paladin early game is significantly harder because of bad DEX meaning lowered melee output, and bad stealth means everything is coming in at you at once. Late game, the risk is getting sloppy from being so over-powered. Once you get 5% fail on Heal spell, you can kill just about anything in melee.

[Estie]

I won. A hard fought victory because I didn't find much in the way of damage output in a melee weapon. I had high hopes in finding a cool randarts weapon in the dlvl 90s but nothing really surfaced.

Perhaps now, it's time to figure out the paladin class.

A MoD holy avenger is about as much as you can hope for meleewise; better randarts often dont exist, and if they do, they are based on something ultrarare like Bladeturner or Deathwreaker. For taking down the bosses, that Haradrim xbow is usually going to be the better bet as good ammo is fairly common.

Have fun with the paladin!

[Pete Mack]

MoD HA or +2 blows is better than most standard artifacts too. +2 blows means you can take down any of the unique undead in around 12 turns. 800+ damage/turn is ranger with ego ammo territory.

[Timo Pietilä]

Paladin early game is significantly harder because of bad DEX meaning lowered melee output, and bad stealth means everything is coming in at you at once.

I wouldn't say it is hard, just slowish. Paladin stealth is in par with warrior, and priest spells more than compensate lack of DEX. You need to play paladin as warrior with priest spells, not as priest with warrior fighting capabilities.

I find mages hardest (slowest) to start. They need to be extra careful because they are so fragile. You need to run away a lot, and if you happen to get surrounded or threatened by something fast you get killed pretty easily. Paladins are relatively tough so they can fight more, which means faster gain of XP.

[StMicah]

I see what folks mean about the slowness of the paladin...currently at dlvl 25, clvl with a dwarf paladin. He has a defender spear and a main gauche of venom and can be easily overpowered by some orc groups. I usually find dlvls 30 to 50 tough going and slow, so I hope this character starts finding his groove before then.

With my winning rogue, I definitely noticed how a holy avenger MoD and Haradrim change the game. I found both in the last few levels and that greatly changed my readiness to talk on Sauron and Morgoth.

[PowerWyrm]

I won. A hard fought victory because I didn't find much in the way of damage output in a melee weapon.

Next time, try a martial artist, you won't need to bother about the damage output of your weapon

[PowerWyrm]

Paladin early game is significantly harder because of bad DEX meaning lowered melee output, and bad stealth means everything is coming in at you at once. Late game, the risk is getting sloppy from being so over-powered. Once you get 5% fail on Heal spell, you can kill just about anything in melee.

What I don't like about Paladin is that they're *terrible* at disarming stuff. In the old days where doors could be locked tight, it was faster to dig a wall square next to a door than trying to pick the door.

[StMicah]

Whine and you shall receive...

The level I played right after my last message had a decent randarts a scimitar that offers immunity to lighting and a quickish (49 to 54 turns) activation for Protection from Evil, which means I could have that buff in effect perpetually. And, perhaps around stat-gain, it might become an effective weapon.

And I'm not sure I can do the martial artist challenge just yet—still too reliant on my weapon. But if you have tips as to how to handle that martial artist, I'm all ears.

[Pete Mack]

There's no such specialty in V: martial artist is pure challenge character that simply goes without a weapon.

[StMicah]

I know there's no class in V—but there's a strategy (I'm assuming) for doing well during the challenge.

[Timo Pietilä]

I know there's no class in V—but there's a strategy (I'm assuming) for doing well during the challenge.

I'm not sure if this is valid in current vanilla, but in a bit older versions all non-weapon bonuses did increase your melee-damage even without melee-weapon and you got two hits, so melee was not completely out of question.

Other than that, you could play magic-only mage (or priest, but that would require using wands until OoD, and that could be rather impossible challenge). Bow-only ranger is a good challenge too. You need a huge quiver.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Fists only is possible, it just requires an awful lot of patience. http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=17057