Identification strategies

[Wanderlust]

Hi Everyone,

First of all I'd like to say hi to everyone here and especially THANKS to everyone who's kept Angband alive all these years and worked on its development. I've been frustrated with games for at least 25 years, searching for that elusive "fun factor" I used to experience in my teen years. But the fun has been missing all this time. Finally I discovered roguelikes several months ago and spent quite a bit of time messing around with ADOM, Nethack, and lots of smaller ones.

But the magic happened when I fired up Angband Vanilla. I knew this was the game I've been looking for since the first time I tried it. I really feel like I've found a lost treasure. And it's great to see the development is active, I can't wait to see what the next few years will bring.

For now I'd like to ask a basic gameplay strategy question about identification. What are the good strategies for identification? I've found this is creating lots of dilemmas for me.

For example, suppose I'm wielding an awesome weapon. Now I find another weapon on the floor in the dungeon. Information is revealed about it progressively as I pick it up, wield it, and use it. But while I'm mucking around with the new weapon (which is probaby worthless), I can't use my good one. Alternatively, I can burn an identification scroll on everything I find, which just seems silly.

There must be a more intelligent way to approach identification ... right?

[fph]

There isn't much around. Quick list of tips:

1. Id by use is safe. No cursed items in the most recent versions of this game.
2. Try unidentified potions when your health is lower than 100%. Possibly when you are poisoned, too. So you can identify heal potions.
3. Try unidentified scrolls when you are on the stairs. So you don't get bitten by summon monsters. Keep in mind that sooner or later you will find deep descent and end up 5 levels lower than your comfort zone. That's part of the game. (Arguably, being below your comfort zone is a great strategy).
4. At the very beginning of the game, only wear unid'd weapons when you are about to face an easy fight.
5. Very soon, this won't matter anymore because all possible weapon upgrades are splendid weapons anyway.
6. Start squelching non-splendid items sooner than your instinct would say. Apart from crowns of serenity, there is little you can use. (assuming you are at a point in the game where you have Free Action already covered).
7. Staves and wands: I just zap them at an enemy because I am lazy, but in theory you could wait to have an enemy, a trap or door and a wall lined up so you can id also wands of digging and destroy trap/door. For staves, you could wait to be poisoned to id staves of curing, but again I am lazy and staves of curing are almost junk in a non-ironman game.

[Bimbul]

Just burn ID scrolls - provided you've waited for the feeling to be not 'average'

They are plentiful and after you've got a decent amount of gold you will start to find staves of identify too.

My strategy

(i) Play as a mage - you get the identify spell in book 3 - once you have that you're away and can ID at will

(ii) Scrolls staves wands and rods can be ID'd by selling in town when you recall (once you get to the decent ones you will be easily able to ID anyway - maybe hold on this if you got superb/excellent treasure feeling).

(iii) If not a mage (or before you get identify spell) just carry things around until you get a feeling of 'average', 'magical' or 'excellent'. Don't bother IDing unleass it's excellent. Once I'm deep I don't even bother with excellent much either unless I have a plentiful supply of ID staves/scrolls. Artifacts only and un-ID'd rings/scrolls/amulets/rods come first.

(iv) In Angband I find, provided you find a safe spot on a quiet level it's not that dangerous to just try out un ID'd scrolls, staves etc if you don't want to go to town.. Some are slightly dangerous (deep descent, summoning) but I don't think this has killed me yet. Not like in Nethack where you can very easily die like this.
Once you get past a couple of thousand in $ you can generally just recall to town and buy a new stave of identify if you run out.

[edit] also what the previous poster said.

[PowerWyrm]

At level 20, everything wearable gets pseudo-ID which is sufficient to disard junk. Otherwise, get a staff of ID and use it on everything else. When out of charges, simply recharge it at the 6.

[Monkey Face]

(ii) Scrolls staves wands and rods can be ID'd by selling in town when you recall (once you get to the decent ones you will be easily able to ID anyway - maybe hold on this if you got superb/excellent treasure feeling).

Rods are always safe to ID by use as none have detrimental effects.

[Bimbul]

Rods are always safe to ID by use as none have detrimental effects.

True but it's not always possible to ID them by use quickly (monster is unaffected for example). To be fair I don't think I've ever actually ID'd a rod by selling it - I should probably not have included them in that list.

[luneya]

At level 20, everything wearable gets pseudo-ID which is sufficient to disard junk. Otherwise, get a staff of ID and use it on everything else. When out of charges, simply recharge it at the 6.

Level 20? As far as I can tell, unless you're a mage, all equipment has pseudo from level 1.The pseudo might be faster at higher levels, but then a low-level character can afford to carry around gear for a while.

[Wanderlust]

Hmm, how does the pseudo ID actually work? Do you have to pick up the item to see the pseudo ID? Or do you actually have to wield it? Or does this change depending on level?

[luneya]

Just carrying an item for a while will give you the pseudo id, which basically tells you if the item is average, has bonuses to accuracy/damage/ac (marked as "good"), or has magical properties beyond those (any other pseudo reading). If you carry the item even longer, there's also a chance to get full id for free. How long either of these processes takes depends on class and level. Fighters are the best at pseudo, and mages the worst. But then mages don't really need it, as they can just cast id spells on everything they find, whereas fighters can only get full id from scrolls and staves of identify (or in the late game, rods).

[Wanderlust]

Just carrying an item for a while will give you the pseudo id

Aha. So, does that mean we need to at least pick up EVERY piece of equipment we see in the dungeon, just to get the pseudo-id to make sure it isn't an extremely powerful artifact?

If that's the case, then I guess the squelch options are very important because squelching categories of items would be the only way to eliminate lower-quality items without actually having to pick up every single one first.

Is that the general idea, or am I missing something here?

[krazyhades]

Sortof but not really. First off, warrior-types end up with VERY fast pseudo ID past a certain point, within a couple of turns usually. Second of all, if there's particularly good loot on the floor you'll get a good level feeling message. Third of all, one often liberally uses staff of identify as soon as one can afford it.

[Wanderlust]

Cool, actually pseudo id makes perfect sense as a game mechanic. It's just how I'd expect to identify items in life.

If you saw a legendary sword lying on the ground, of course you probably wouldn't realize it's legendary until you took a closer look. Even then you would have no way of knowing the exact properties of the item until you gained enough experience with it. Without some kind of "magical" means of understanding the item, you'd have to learn its properties by experiencing them as they were revealed through use. And with more experience, you'd identify legendary items much faster next time.

The whole system has a very "simulation" feel to it, which I'm loving.

I've always hated micro-management in games. But this is different, because it actually makes sense and adds a whole level of depth to part of the game that's shallow in almost every other implementation I've seen.

I started my second game this morning with ironman settings and I've been paying vastly more attention to how squelch and inscription settings work. So far it is adding a lot to my enjoyment of the game (although I still have a lot to learn)!

[PowerWyrm]

Level 20? As far as I can tell, unless you're a mage, all equipment has pseudo from level 1.The pseudo might be faster at higher levels, but then a low-level character can afford to carry around gear for a while.

That has changed in latest versions. Pseudo ID is now identical for all races (except Mage) and becomes instantaneous at level 20.

[Derakon]

Note that you learn if an item is an artifact as soon as you pick it up; no need to wait for pseudo to kick in in that case. Also, pseudo happens a bit faster if the item is equipped instead of just being in inventory. Obviously that stops being relevant once you get to the instant-pseudo levels.

[Rowan]

In early-game I like selling scrolls & potions to ID them. The risks of ID-by-use are so high for early-game that it's better to waste a good scroll or potion by selling it. By the time you get deep enough for really amazing/valuable scrolls and potions, you've found other means of ID.

Wands, staves, and rods I ID by use, since the bad ones really aren't THAT bad and the good ones are too good to sell. But again, by the time you find plentiful wands, staves, & rods, you probably have a lot of ID scrolls.

Weapons & armor I carry around until I get the pseudo-ID. Anything average or magical you can learn by use, anything excellent or better either gets equipped, or I drop it at home until I have an ID scroll/spell/staff. Later in the game, quality squelching saves a lot of time.