That beautiful moment...

[gglibertine]

...when you get to throw away your Blue Dragon Scale Mail of Craftsmanship [12, +26] because you just found Blue Dragon Scale Mail (Dwarven) [12, +27] <+2, +1>.

The randarts have been a bit disappointing so far, but after a slow start I've managed to put together some pretty nice kit! I think I might be getting the hang of this gnome mage thing, finally.

Thanks to Bogatyr, Monkey Face, bio_hazard, and Estie for the good advice. I'm down to dl34, but since I have a history of dying on dl40, I want to hang around a bit in the 30s and see how much studlier I can get before I dive again.

[brbrbr]

I want to hang around a bit in the 30s and see how much studlier I can get before I dive again.

That was mistake I made a lot while ago: I wouldn't go down until I feel comfortable on the current level.
The thing is you need to go down to progress.

Go down if you have reliable escape. On DL30 it would be as easy as scroll/staff of Teleport. Keep you eyes open, and you will be alright.

I remember I was having continuous troubles with HE ranger in midgame. The solution was as easy as go 15 levels deeper. Counter-intuitive, but game drops really depend on dangeoun level, not monsters. And remember - the only monster you *need to fight is Morgoth. All others are optional.

[krugar]

but since I have a history of dying on dl40

You tell me. For the past month, actually a little more than that, I can't seem to be able to bring a single character into DL50. It's starting to affect my confidence. I get into DL40 and go into a "i'm going to die here" frame of mind.

Best of luck with your mage! Just wanted to share my frustration. Sorry for doing it in your thread

[Bimbul]

And remember - the only monster you *need to fight is Morgoth. All others are optional.

And Sauron - not that I've got that far myself, but that's my understanding

[Timo Pietilä]

Counter-intuitive, but game drops really depend on dangeoun level, not monsters.

Both have an effect. IIRC if the monster is higher level than dungeon it is average of the two. Not quite sure how it works if the dlvl is higher than monster level. There was a change in that few years ago, but I can't remember what was changed. It used to be average of the two no matter which is deeper of the two.

[gglibertine]

You tell me. For the past month, actually a little more than that, I can't seem to be able to bring a single character into DL50. It's starting to affect my confidence. I get into DL40 and go into a "i'm going to die here" frame of mind.

Best of luck with your mage! Just wanted to share my frustration. Sorry for doing it in your thread

No worries. I feel your pain!

[Rydel]

Both have an effect. IIRC if the monster is higher level than dungeon it is average of the two. Not quite sure how it works if the dlvl is higher than monster level.

IIRC, it's MAX(dlvl, (dlvl+mlvl)/2), so an underleveled monster drops items at the same level as items spawning on the floor

[Derakon]

IIRC, it's MAX(dlvl, (dlvl+mlvl)/2), so an underleveled monster drops items at the same level as items spawning on the floor

You have it precisely backwards. An out-of-depth monster will drop items from its native depth, but an underleveled monster will drop items from the average of its (shallow) native depth and the current dungeon level. So you're slightly rewarded for fighting monsters before you're "supposed" to.

[Timo Pietilä]

You have it precisely backwards. An out-of-depth monster will drop items from its native depth, but an underleveled monster will drop items from the average of its (shallow) native depth and the current dungeon level. So you're slightly rewarded for fighting monsters before you're "supposed" to.

IIRC it was briefly

MAX(dlvl, (dlvl+mlvl)/2)

but that was far too rewarding (group of orcs at 5000' drop way too good items) so it was changed to

MAX(mlvl, (dlvl+mlvl)/2)

Which is much better. I just didn't remember if there were emphasis on monster level or dungeon level if monster level was not determining level.

MAX(mlvl, (dlvl+(mlvl*2))/3) or MAX(mlvl, ((dlvl*2)+mlvl)/3

or something like that.

[edit] more coffee, better memory. Looks like my other post in this has the average used in wrong place.

[Estie]

Once upon a time dragons were a good source for (permanent) items; in tome2, that is still the case: dragon > demon > undead, for loot value.

I am not sure when exactly that changed, but pretty much the only monsters I kill for loot are the uniques. Floor items in and outside of vaults are the source for the vast majority of items ending up equipped.

Consumables are a different matter; when I am low, killing an Ainu pit fixes.

[Derakon]

Once upon a time dragons were a good source for (permanent) items; in tome2, that is still the case: dragon > demon > undead, for loot value.

I am not sure when exactly that changed, but pretty much the only monsters I kill for loot are the uniques. Floor items in and outside of vaults are the source for the vast majority of items ending up equipped.

It changed as part of the action to address Too Much Junk. It was absurd that a dragon dropped up to 16 items, especially with floor stacking; players were spending more time slowly sifting through the loot than they were fighting the monsters. The goal of Too Much Junk was to get the same number of useful items to the player without making them look at so many useless, uninteresting items. Do you really need to be seeing yet another {magical} Dagger at 4000'? I'm not up on the actual implementation, but I believe the idea was basically similar to auto-squelch, except that the rules are hardcoded into the engine and the item is simply never generated in the first place if it doesn't pass the quality requirements.

[bio_hazard]

You tell me. For the past month, actually a little more than that, I can't seem to be able to bring a single character into DL50. It's starting to affect my confidence. I get into DL40 and go into a "i'm going to die here" frame of mind.

Best of luck with your mage! Just wanted to share my frustration. Sorry for doing it in your thread

I find this to be a hard transition as well. There's just a lot of things to worry about. Speed starts to ramp up across the board, summoning becomes more of a worry, exotic elements that cause bad effects, more guys with dangerous curses and other serious ranged attacks. I don't think there's necessarily anything specific that always gets me. Last char was a puny hobbit mage who decided not to take a death quasit seriously enough, and played the "I'm sure the next attack will kill it and get it to flee" game.

[Bogatyr]

I find this part of the game not really difficult any more, but just slow and painstaking. You just can't let yourself get into LoS of any monster with an instadeath attack, and you can't let yourself into LoS of any monster that is (potentially) faster than you with a ranged attack with max value over 1/2 your HP. I generally do not die at this point, any more, but it can take a long while to build up the CON to the point where you can be slightly less cautious. Of course, it absolutely requires 18/200+ INT for 0% teleport other. Without that, yes, @ will die, a lot.

With Scarabtarices and all elemental resists (thus double resist, 1/9 damange), you can take on most basic elemental dragons safely which are great for XP and item drops. The monsters to really watch out for are the nasty "p"'s and undead with psionic and curse attacks.

[Estie]

It changed as part of the action to address Too Much Junk. It was absurd that a dragon dropped up to 16 items, especially with floor stacking; players were spending more time slowly sifting through the loot than they were fighting the monsters. The goal of Too Much Junk was to get the same number of useful items to the player without making them look at so many useless, uninteresting items. Do you really need to be seeing yet another {magical} Dagger at 4000'? I'm not up on the actual implementation, but I believe the idea was basically similar to auto-squelch, except that the rules are hardcoded into the engine and the item is simply never generated in the first place if it doesn't pass the quality requirements.

Yes I remember. But not showing magical daggers shouldnt affect the ratio of floor vs dropped items.

Maybe part of the effect is a change in playstyle - the common artifacts can ge collected from vaults before achieving the power to be able to kill great wyrms. Still, it feels a tad off. A GV can easily have a dozen mails of elvenkind lying about, but I doubt you`d get even one on average from a dragon pit.