Here's how I start gnome mages

[Bogatyr]

I would rather remove raise one lower another -potions so that your stats increase in about steady rate and you don't have situation where one stat is at internal 3 and another at internal 18/150.

I wouldn't like this. Being able to focus on one stat adds more options and strategies to the game.

[fph]

Another option would be for the nexus swap-stat effect to be strictly time-limited, but completely jumble your stats. That is, for the next N turns each stat acts as if it were a different stat.

This looks like a great idea! It would make nexus hounds a mild annoyance alone, but potentially deadly in vaults or crowded levels.

[Derakon]

I don't see why we couldn't keep the swap as is, but on each level gain a 50% chance to revert.

It requires maintaining more state about the game, and could be complicated. What happens if you gain stats after the swap? What about if you hit your maximum in that stat? Or your minimum?

Another option would be for the nexus swap-stat effect to be strictly time-limited, but completely jumble your stats. That is, for the next N turns each stat acts as if it were a different stat.

[bio_hazard]

I don't see why we couldn't keep the swap as is, but on each level gain a 50% chance to revert.

[brbrbr]

A "minor" impact like having your primary stat lowered by 3-6 points is manageable, but I suspect that fewer than 1 in 1000 players enjoy

Hound swapped my stats once. It was a bugger. Then the same hound swapped it back!! That was hilarious and very enjoying.

How about dancing around Nexus hound until it gets your stats scrambled the way you like it???

I vote for keeping it. Give a bit of variety and unpredictability into the game.

[Derakon]

I vote for keeping the nexus stat scramble effect as it is. Yes, if it happens and @ doesn't have rNexus it can be difficult to overcome (until stats are maxed), but difficult is not impossible. Plus it is a very rare effect versus the other nexus effects. It isn't a gotcha instadeath the way potions of death were. I guess I just don't like the tendency to water down the dangers.

Thesis: the game should be fun to play. Consequence: the game should not put itself into a state that is not fun to play. Observation: very few people enjoy playing when their primary stat has been permanently nuked into oblivion.

So...conclusion: if your primary stat falls below 10, then you automatically die?

A "minor" impact like having your primary stat lowered by 3-6 points is manageable, but I suspect that fewer than 1 in 1000 players enjoy, say, playing a mage who is suddenly an incredibly wise drooling idiot. Especially when they realize that their only means of recovery are either a) drinking potions for ages to get back to where they were, or b) hoping for an incredibly lucky stat swap. Hence why I suggested the +3/-3 effect: it's big enough to be really noticeable, but it shouldn't be game-ruining.

[Timo Pietilä]

And the removal of the Charisma stat has made nexus attacks much more dangerous. Since Chr potions started to appear earlier than other potions, and were much cheaper to buy in the black market, odds were high that a scramble was in your favour.

For that reason I sometimes hope that we would not have removed it. You sometimes hit a jackpot and got your main stat swapped with 18/100 CHR before stat-gain.

[Timo Pietilä]

18/150 internal is a bit high

Ooops. 18/100.

[Werbaer]

I would rather remove raise one lower another -potions so that your stats increase in about steady rate and you don't have situation where one stat is at internal 3 and another at internal 18/150.

18/150 internal is a bit high

But yes, without that min/max, swaps are much less dangerous. My last mage had his Int (18/50) swapped with Con, but the internal 10 translated to 17 Int, wich was survivable.

And the removal of the Charisma stat has made nexus attacks much more dangerous. Since Chr potions started to appear earlier than other potions, and were much cheaper to buy in the black market, odds were high that a scramble was in your favour.

[Timo Pietilä]

I've been agitating for a few years for it to be replaced by a +3/-3 effect.

I would rather remove raise one lower another -potions so that your stats increase in about steady rate and you don't have situation where one stat is at internal 3 and another at internal 18/150.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

I vote for keeping the nexus stat scramble effect as it is. Yes, if it happens and @ doesn't have rNexus it can be difficult to overcome (until stats are maxed), but difficult is not impossible. Plus it is a very rare effect versus the other nexus effects. It isn't a gotcha instadeath the way potions of death were. I guess I just don't like the tendency to water down the dangers.

[Derakon]

I know it's a feature, but I thought they removed it back when they were taking out all the unfairly nasty old-time stuff like the potions of death and whatnot.

I've been agitating for a few years for it to be replaced by a +3/-3 effect.

I guess I should just implement it and submit a pull request...?

[luneya]

Sorry about the loss. It happens though. My worst have been when it's against Sauron and I had to go all the way back to the beginning!

Nexus stat swap is not a bug and, as far as I know, has been around a long time. It just isn't as likely to occur as the other nexus effects. When it does though, it's like suddenly being thrust into an iron-man game. A corollary is when you find an early !Experience and then get stat-drained. It can take a very, very long time to get to stat depth or find a mushroom of vigor. Meanwhile it's quite dangerous.

I know it's a feature, but I thought they removed it back when they were taking out all the unfairly nasty old-time stuff like the potions of death and whatnot.

[Bogatyr]

Oh, Bogatyr, you are so in love with mages!

Magic is, for me, the entire point of the game.

By the way - "Bogatyr" in Russian means "Warrior"
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I know .

[brbrbr]

In Angband, mage has always been the offensively weakest class. The classes are balanced so that offense + utility = constant, more or less, and mage has the best utility from the red books. In olden days, the spell damage wasnt even on par with 4 attack melee; these days, it is.

Ah, that makes sense!
I was expecting much more from mages, but now I understand it.

The big mage-only spell-line is banishment, to be found in Kelek´s; maybe, if you had managed to get it, youd have experienced some mage glory, though even with manasorm, mage damage is nowhere near stellar.

It would be nice to have Banishment in the spellbook. Although if that spellbook is only found on the latest levels of the dangeon.... when the games is almost finished...it makes a very short glory ))

I think picking Dunadan was a mistake. While bonus stats are the best thing for all other classes, mage is the one exception; you need to pay for those stats with slower xp gain, and while stats enable fighters to kill faster to make up for that, this isnt true for mages. If you ever try another mage, maybe try human

Dunadan mage was a very good combo for me. It made midgame solid. I had 10 tries at gnome mage and it was torture. Dunadan get that far in first attempt. I could also dive very fast.
I agree that Dunadan has slow XP is disadvantage, (I hit dl95 at cl39 - too early) but it is not that big, as that deep Portions of Experience are common.
I agree Human would be interesting choice. Quicker and higher cl would also help with damage, as spell damage depends on cl, doesn't it.
I am not sure about HP though... for Human I would need to find 3 more Potions of Constitution on average to get to the same level of health.

At least for me, whether a combination turned out to be boring was more a matter of the RNG than anything else.

Strangely enough, I found RNG very consistent for a given class. I have suspicion there are some RNG "adjustments" in the code for classes.
Common wisdom is that professionals produce consistent results in volatile environment, while amateurs are the opposite

To each his own. Warrior for me is boooooooorrrrrriiiiiinnnnggggg

Oh, Bogatyr, you are so in love with mages!
By the way - "Bogatyr" in Russian means "Warrior"
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