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Again, I have to differ. Yes, you correctly point out their Con bonus, however, you neglect to consider their hit die. Hobbit has only 7 hit die, and Gnome and Kobold only 8 hit die. Mage has no increase in hit die and priest only 2 increase. All other races start with at least 10 hit die. By the end-game, this deficit really adds up. So, despite their Con bonuses, these races are quite fragile with the lowest hit die in the game. Which means they ARE likely to need =Con. They certainly needed the Con ring for my wins with those combinations.
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“We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead -
Not that much. Diff between 8 and 9 is only about 25 HP and 50 between 8 and 10: 4.5 * 50 vs 5 * 50 vs 5.5 * 50.
18/190 vs 18/200 is 75 points. You get 625 points of HP from maxed CON alone. Only 275 average from 10 hit die.
This only reinforces your point that RoCON might be needed for getting that last bit of CON. Especially for races with CON penalties, but even those that have CON bonuses might need them (as per your examples).Comment
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I tossed enough stuff to move on for a brief while, and then I just beat a unique and got Angrist (gee, would have been nifty in the early game but trash now I guess) and Eowyn's sword. I was excited to see this sword, having read a couple places where people said that though it was not in the very top tier with Ringil etc it was basically an endgame-quality weapon. But now that I have it, I find that it does *less* damage than Dagmor to everything except undead and giants. This is probably exacerbated by my being a rogue rather than a warrior (+2 blows matters more when you normally have lower max blows) and by a couple of scrolls of *Enchant Weapon* off the floor of the dungeon having succeeded against the odds.
Evenstar already gives me resistance to nether (along with frost and dark which I have multiples of) while Dor-Lomin gives me resistance to fear.
Do I even keep Eowyn around? Is there something I overlooked?Last edited by Gram; December 8, 2015, 21:48.Comment
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I am aware Eonwe is better, and I should have said late-game rather than endgame.
I've been done with stat gain (except a few points of WIS) for a good while, and I can beat up on an AMHD easily, but I'm deep enough (DL54 right now) that I've bumped into some unpleasant stuff like gravity and time hounds, and my equipment is good but not great. (Stats except WIS and all equipment except slightly improved boots still the same as above.) People seem to say spending time around DL60 is a poor idea - "either stay for a while up where you don't get those dangerous hounds or rapidly descend so you're getting better loot" - but I feel like I'm not ready for rapid descent. I'm not yet really asking about what I should have for Sauron and Morgoth, but about equipment for the mid/late game.
Here's the relevant snippets from the dump; as you see both weapons are at max blows:
Code:a) the Short Sword 'Dagmor' (1d7) (+14,+14) <+2> Dropped by Lugdush, the Uruk at 1150 feet (level 23) +2 attack speed. Slays animals. Branded with poison. Cannot be harmed by acid. Slows your metabolism. Speeds regeneration. Combat info: 7.0 blows/round. Average damage/round: 358.4 vs. creatures not resistant to poison, 328.3 vs. animals, and 297.5 vs. others. . . . s) the Bastard Sword of Éowyn (4d4) (+12,+16) <+4, +2> Dropped by Adunaphel the Quiet at 2700 feet (level 54) +4 strength. +2 stealth. Slays animals, giants, undead (powerfully), evil creatures. Provides resistance to frost, dark, nether. Provides protection from fear. Cannot be harmed by acid. Combat info: 5.0 blows/round. Average damage/round: 334 vs. animals, 389 vs. giants, 499 vs. undead, 334 vs. evil creatures, and 279 vs. others.
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Take another look at those numbers & consider just how many dangerous enemies are evil & poison resistant. Multi-hued & green dragons for a start.
Also better damage against a multi-hued hound or the bigger hydras though not by much.
+2 stealth
More flexible if you want to swap whatever is giving you dark or nether resist.
Edit: Greater basilisk - evil, poison resistant
Dracolisk - evil, poison resistant
Dracolich - undead, poison resistant
Winged Horror - natural, poison resistant (so same/same-ish)Last edited by wobbly; December 8, 2015, 22:46.Comment
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Eowyn is a bit better than Dagmor against poison-resistant evil, and massively better against undead. It is significantly worse against non-poison-resistant non-evil monsters...but how many of those are there in the game that you're likely to be going against anytime soon?
Try wielding Eowyn as a standard weapon and carrying Dagmor as a swap. See how often you need to switch. My guess is: not very often.Comment
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Eowyn all the way. Heres how I look at it:
Dagmor: does 300 to everything
Eowyn: does 500 to undead, 300 to rest. That 500 vs undead is a noticable boost, all the other numbers around 300 are not. You dont want to take on, say, Osse yet with either of those weapons; but with that undead bonus, the high Ringwraiths become interesting targets.Comment
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As between the two, I'd probably go with Eowyn, but it's a close call. The caveats would be: (1) if playing a mage or priest with only 4 blows, those extra blows with Dagmor are a help, and (2) if the @ is weak, Eowyn may be a bit too heavy to be effective.
In any event, you won't likely be using either of them in the end-game. You'll probably find something unequivocally better than both of them.“We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are DeadComment
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When weapons are really close to each other I would look at the other abilities of the weapons. In that competition Eowyn is clearly better: +4 STR, +2 Stealth, rCold, rNether, rDark, pFear vs. Slow digestion and Regen.Comment
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I had been badly underestimating how many of the monsters I've seen were undead. The advice to switch to Eowyn was not only good but proved to be quite timely. On that same level there was a vault with two dangerous OOD druj (along with Eol) that yielded three more artifacts. Then not too long after I came across another level with a big pit full of vampires and vampire lords who for some reason seem to have been already awake when I arrived on the level; this level also had an unseen amulet type that proved to be Trickery, along with Mordenkainen's and an Acquirement that gave me the Glaive of Pain.
But now I have too much stuff.
As nice as all this stuff is, I don't see straightforward upgrades. Gotta leave a bunch of stuff behind. I have a few ideas but I thought I'd ask first and explain later.
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