Recharging

[fph]

If I understand correctly, the various methods of recharging an item have a failure % which increases (greatly) with the average number of charges for each wand in the stack. Each successful recharge increases the number of charges by a number which does not depend on the size of the stack, and each failure destroys one wand.

So it seems like the optimal way to recharge a stack of wands is waiting until the total number of charges is less than the number of wands in the stack, then dropping them on the floor each on a different tile, recharging the empty ones one by one and picking them up.

1. Is the above correct?
2. This seems like a lot of tedious and nethackish work. Do players normally do this, or they just don't bother and take the additional failure chance?
3. Have other alternative mechanics for recharging ever be suggested? I don't see immediately one that works better, but it looks like an area that could be improved with some thought.

[Timo Pietilä]

(charging wands/staves one by one instead of one stack at time)
2. This seems like a lot of tedious and nethackish work. Do players normally do this, or they just don't bother and take the additional failure chance?

I do that with staves and wands I value enough that it hurts to lose one, like ID staves and teleport other wands with warrior and priests. Recharge scroll and priest recharge spell both have pretty high failure rates.

[Carnivean]

3. Have other alternative mechanics for recharging ever be suggested? I don't see immediately one that works better, but it looks like an area that could be improved with some thought.

Selling it to a shop that is willing to sell it back to you should get you charges without risk. There have been suggestions to make this more obvious, like giving a shop a specific item recharge option.

[Derakon]

Selling it to a shop that is willing to sell it back to you should get you charges without risk. There have been suggestions to make this more obvious, like giving a shop a specific item recharge option.

It only works with items the shop sells to begin with, though.

And yeah, the recharging system is kind of wonky. I don't think anyone's going to say that recharging ought to be risk-free though, especially not as the number of charges you have stored up increases. And players love to minimize risk. So the system is sort of self-defeating (if the goal is to minimize tedium).

[Carnivean]

It only works with items the shop sells to begin with, though.

I've never tried, but doesn't the Black Market sell just about anything, and therefore charge most things?

[Timo Pietilä]

I've never tried, but doesn't the Black Market sell just about anything, and therefore charge most things?

It would need selling game. With no selling you can't sell items into shops, even for zero gold. I think shops accept unknown items only (can't remember right now if even those)

[Derakon]

It would need selling game. With no selling you can't sell items into shops, even for zero gold. I think shops accept unknown items only (can't remember right now if even those)

Er? You can use shops for recharging in no-selling games. They'll happily take your identified item for 0 gold and then charge you full price to buy it back. Unless that's changed in 4.x.

[Timo Pietilä]

Er? You can use shops for recharging in no-selling games. They'll happily take your identified item for 0 gold and then charge you full price to buy it back. Unless that's changed in 4.x.

hm. You are correct. I tested and it seems that there is inconsistency in what shops accept. Only wands and staves are accepted. For example I can't sell my scroll of WOR to alchemist even for zero gold, but I can sell staff of teleportation to magic shop. I just assumed that they don't buy anything.

I think shops should accept any stuff they sell for zero gold. It makes shopping a bit easier when you have full inventory (no need to go outside to drop things first, if you just upgrade what you have).

[Derakon]

hm. You are correct. I tested and it seems that there is inconsistency in what shops accept. Only wands and staves are accepted. For example I can't sell my scroll of WOR to alchemist even for zero gold, but I can sell staff of teleportation to magic shop. I just assumed that they don't buy anything.

I think shops should accept any stuff they sell for zero gold. It makes shopping a bit easier when you have full inventory (no need to go outside to drop things first, if you just upgrade what you have).

Ahh, it's probably that they don't buy items that they sell an infinite quantity of, then. I bet you could sell e.g. a Scroll of Trap Detection.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Ahh, it's probably that they don't buy items that they sell an infinite quantity of, then. I bet you could sell e.g. a Scroll of Trap Detection.

In no-selling game, I think the shops accept only: 1) previously unidentified item, and 2) item which is rechargeable by the shop.

[luneya]

And unless it's been changed in a recent version, the no-sell mode shop will only buy-to-recharge gear that's been drained to zero charges, which is safe enough to charge using other methods. It's easier just to stockpile recharge scrolls rather than dealing with the shopkeepers.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

And unless it's been changed in a recent version, the no-sell mode shop will only buy-to-recharge gear that's been drained to zero charges, which is safe enough to charge using other methods. It's easier just to stockpile recharge scrolls rather than dealing with the shopkeepers.

Easier to stockpile those recharge scrolls (which is what I do, especially for non-casters or casters with high fail rates on recharge), BUT the shopkeeper is a fail-safe method of recharge. They never blow up a wand on recharging.

[Bogatyr]

If I understand correctly, the various methods of recharging an item have a failure % which increases (greatly) with the average number of charges for each wand in the stack. Each successful recharge increases the number of charges by a number which does not depend on the size of the stack, and each failure destroys one wand.

So it seems like the optimal way to recharge a stack of wands is waiting until the total number of charges is less than the number of wands in the stack, then dropping them on the floor each on a different tile, recharging the empty ones one by one and picking them up.

1. Is the above correct?
2. This seems like a lot of tedious and nethackish work. Do players normally do this, or they just don't bother and take the additional failure chance?
3. Have other alternative mechanics for recharging ever be suggested? I don't see immediately one that works better, but it looks like an area that could be improved with some thought.

This is precisely what I do, especially with mages with valuable/rare endgame wands like Annihilation/Drain Life. Additionally, I only ever recharge these with Greater Recharging, and only one at a time when they have 0 charges remaining. Even with this approach, l've had several wands of annihilation with 0 charges blow up on me in a row on occasion with Greater Recharging. Such is the RNG.

[quarague]

I usually use the lazy version of your recharge strategy. That is, use up all charges of the entire stack, then cast a single recharge. If I get charges, I will use these first, if it goes boom, I will try to recharge again. This is significantly less tedious but of course the drawback is that you never have many charges available at once. This can actually help with charge drainers but means you may have to recharge during a fight. One of my priests killed the big M with wands of annihilation using that strategy, so I would say, the saved tedium is worthwhile.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

I usually use the lazy version of your recharge strategy. That is, use up all charges of the entire stack, then cast a single recharge. If I get charges, I will use these first, if it goes boom, I will try to recharge again. This is significantly less tedious but of course the drawback is that you never have many charges available at once. This can actually help with charge drainers but means you may have to recharge during a fight.

+1. I never drop and charge individual items from the stack.