Vault of Death

[Grotug]

Thank God I decided to carry the Beaked Axe of Theoden around with me, wasn't expecting to come across such a deathly vault. I'm at 1750' (DL35) and the following foes are in the vault (by proximity to the entrance of the vault): Nightwing (DL61), Ancient White Dragon (DL40), Smaug the Golden (DL48), Great Wyrm of Chaos (DL75), Marilith (DL47), The Dracolisk (DL55), Emperor Wight (DL38), and The Cat Lord (DL 66).

All in all, there are 15 OOD monsters in the vault. Level feeling 9-9.

I have no speed, except 2 potions of speed. I do have a want of TO with 6 charges, and despite just getting drained by a vortex of time, I'm doing 242dmg a round vs non rFire and 197 vs those who are. I should be able to deal with things up to DL40, but will definitely have to TO Nightwing, Smaug, G-Wyrm o'Chaos, Dracolisk, Marilith, and Cat Lord. But the chances of TO failing on at least one of those is pretty good. I think I'm most worried about the Chaos dragon, but the Dracolisk can also kill me as soon as he sees me. Prolly should walk away.



I have no rPoison but I do have the base resistances rDark and rNether.



When fighting, I'll swap Theoden's beaked axe for Dagger Narthanc [+9, +12]

edit: grrr... so I put all my potions down to fight the frost dragon and he blinds me; so I teleport myself away with a staff with 45 health and a Nightwing kills me. I guess the whole level was riddled with OOD, not just the vault. I was stupid tho, I should have just put the speed potions down and left the rest of them in my inventory, so what if a few cure serious, cure critical and rPoison potions get destroyed. Well, i'm not force quitting this time, cheating is no fun. Of course I'm curious what was in the vault, but there will be others.

[krazyhades]

Are you sure it wasn't a nightwing that you had teleported away previously?

[Grotug]

Are you sure it wasn't a nightwing that you had teleported away previously?

Good point! That staff of teleportation sure handy.

[Bogatyr]

There is always another level, there are always going to be more vaults. You need to be able to withstand at least one max damage attack to even consider it. Or be stealthy/fast enough and only dig into walls with an asleep monster on the other side (still risky, they can wake up). Without enough speed and/or hit points, you'd have to be able to withstand two or more max damage attacks. If you can't, then just walk away. That's one of the hardest things about the game. Of course, attempting to clear a 9-9 vault is great fun and keeps you on your toes and your heart pumping!

[Grotug]

Well, I was stupid dropping all my potions facing the white dragon. I woulda been fine if I had only dropped the speed potions. I didn't realize ancient white dragons blinds @. But, yeah, walking away would be the right move. Still, had i played smart I had just enough TO charges to get rid of the 6 things I could not handle in the vault. But it is true that once I tunnel through the wall, they usually get the first move. :-/ No biggy, I was only CL27; doesn't take so long to get that far.

I did have Good stealth.

[Khuzdul]

For a start, before you go around in vaults you NEED more HP. if you can find any artefacts that increase your con (Thorin, Amrod etc) just USE them. Especially with uniques like Smaug that can just breath on you to kill you, you need to have heaps more con.

Also, get Ethereal Openings as soon as you can. By the time you get to dlvl 60 or deeper, you will be selling copies of it every time you come back up, but you need to be able to teleport other. If you haven't got EO yet, you should really stay away from vaults.

Finally, use resistances. It probably wouldn't have done much against the Nightwing to have rCold on, but by the time you at dlvl 30 you should have rFire, rCold, rBlind and rConf. dlvl 40 or deeper you will need rPoison.

Otherwise, there wasn't really anything you could have done to save yourself. Speed would have been nice.

[mushroom patch]

For a start, before you go around in vaults you NEED more HP. if you can find any artefacts that increase your con (Thorin, Amrod etc) just USE them. Especially with uniques like Smaug that can just breath on you to kill you, you need to have heaps more con.

Also, get Ethereal Openings as soon as you can. By the time you get to dlvl 60 or deeper, you will be selling copies of it every time you come back up, but you need to be able to teleport other. If you haven't got EO yet, you should really stay away from vaults.

Finally, use resistances. It probably wouldn't have done much against the Nightwing to have rCold on, but by the time you at dlvl 30 you should have rFire, rCold, rBlind and rConf. dlvl 40 or deeper you will need rPoison.

Otherwise, there wasn't really anything you could have done to save yourself. Speed would have been nice.

Is this supposed to be some kind of parody or satire? Your advice is "get Ethereal Openings as soon as you can?"

Anyway, as a warning to anyone reading the quoted post, all specific practicable advice that appears there is bad. In particular, the reasons it was bad to attempt this vault have nothing to do with HP or resistances.

re: the OP, "good" stealth is actually bad. It is perfectly safe to do vaults like this one if your stealth is high and you can reliably get the first move against each monster. Speed is not so important, since even at high speed you don't know whether you will get the first move on a monster that's awake, which means you shouldn't give it a chance if it can possibly kill you. Just realize that you're there for the loot and teleport anything that could be a threat (which may be everything). Alternatively, mass banishment works nicely on these vaults if your stealth sucks, though you still need a plan for the uniques.

[Grotug]

I play High Elf Paladin which I think means I don't cast very well. I'm pretty sure wands of TO will have a much lower chance of fail than an EO spell (which isn't available to me until late game anyway). I guess I struggle to overcome "fun" play with "smart" play. I find a 9-9 vault rather tempting. :P I had the option to wear a ring of CON [+3] but prefer [+10] damage. I almost never wear rings of CON, even when I find a [+6]. I had 267 max HP at the time I faced the White Dragon. I still didn't have pConf, but did have a few mushrooms of Clear Mind. I still need to fine tune my inventory management. I think the wand of TO and staff of Teleport (and spell Portal) were my only escapes at the time. I had a scroll of Banishment I bought, but was saving it for later at home. >.< If I did have it, I could have removed for dangerous Ds.

Khuzdul: isn't it rare to have all those resistances by DL30? By DL30, the only resistance I know I *must* have is FrAct and it's often all I have by then along with the base resists. I was lucky this game and happened to have rNether so early.

[Carnivean]

I guess I struggle to overcome "fun" play with "smart" play. I find a 9-9 vault rather tempting.

Combine both. Play a rogue, dive way, way beyond your expected level. Only engage easy opponents if they are between you and equipment. Use your stealth to avoid combat until you get some serious gear, and use your escapes liberally when danger threatens. It's smart play, in that you'll stop wasting time on levels that won't get you end-game gear but could get you killed. It's fun play in that you are risking death with a misplaced combat or awake monster or pack.

Honestly almost nothing is worth risking death for in the middle levels of the game. You might get an artifact like the Trident of Wrath, the Glaive of Pain or Ringil, but more likely you'll find gear that's barely better than you have, and will be replaced in 5-15 levels time.

[Timo Pietilä]

It's fun play in that you are risking death with a misplaced combat or awake monster or pack.

You have way different definition of fun than I have. I find that tedious and boring because of that tediousness.

[Carnivean]

You have way different definition of fun than I have. I find that tedious and boring because of that tediousness.

It's not actually how I play either. Surely though you can understand the thrill of living life on the edge?

[Timo Pietilä]

It's not actually how I play either. Surely though you can understand the thrill of living life on the edge?

Kind of. But that conflicts to my OCD, I wouldn't be living on the edge I would just worry more and detect like crazy. That would then slow my game to crawl and get boring beyond tolerance.

That said, everyone should play much deeper than their comfort zone at least once. It makes you better player. I think after a couple dive like crazy -games I cut my turncout to 1/5:th what it was in ordinary relaxed games. You learn what really matters and what doesn't.

[quarague]

Another tip for taking on vaults. Some vaults (but not all) are nicely separated into several rooms which are connected through either digging, secret doors or regular doors. In these cases you can sometimes clean out part of the vault without serious risk to yourself although there are monsters that can 1-shot your char in other parts of the vault. This of course requires some form of mapping but that isn't too hard to come by.

[Grotug]

Okay, found another vault, this one on DL32 and I'm CL26. It's critters aren't nearly as bad and this time I have speed [+8] and a good weapon in Eorlingas. But no TO. I only have 239 HP, but 115AC. I'm thinking the ethereal drake (DL45) will kill me quick, even if I temporarily boost my speed to +18. The only other real threat is an Ancient Blue Dragon (DL40) which I should be able to handle. Level feeling is 5-7.

I'm thinking trying to deal with the Ethereal Drake will not work out well and that I should walk away.

[Carnivean]

I'm thinking trying to deal with the Ethereal Drake will not work out well and that I should walk away.

They go through non-permanent walls, so once you're in, you are not safe. Go find something easier.