nethacky?

[Grotug]

So I guess nethack was an early roguelike? I don't know much about the game, but I guess there was more discovery of how to Macguiver your way out of situations in that game? Well I had a fun time trying to figure out how to get into a vault with a shovel. I followed some quartz and magma veins that looked like they were going to get inside the vault but never did, always ending at a dead end of Granite. I read somewhere recently that staves of Earthquakes are useful against mobs in that they break up the line of sight. I usually would not pick these up as I don't like how they presumably destroy treasures as well. But I did this time because of that piece of insight regarding their defensiveness. It then occurred to me I might have a chance of breaking up the granite walls of the vault (this was not a "real" vault in that it didn't have permanent walls). Well, it worked, I found a way in as the monsters found a way out and we clobbered each other among the rubbled outskirts of the vault. Anyway, I thought that was kind of a nethacky way to get into a vault. I initially tried Phase dooring in but it wasn't working and it dawned on me the vault was packed thick with monsters and no place for me to land.

In image 1 you can see two quarts/magma veins across from each other, one on the right side of the bottom of the corridor on the left, and the other on the top of the left corner of the vault. I was hoping I'd be able to dig between the two:


Close, but no cigar:


So then I positioned myself not too close to the vault and used the staff:








[img][/img]

[fph]

I appreciate a lot this kind of feedback. Some things look obvious to a long-time player but it is difficult to put oneself in the eyes of a beginner and realize how obscure they are.

At least, we should have a "shopkeeper hint" like

Some vaults, filled with the best treasures and the most dangerous monsters, are surrounded almost entirely by unbreakable walls. Dig around them with a shovel and find your way in, but be careful!

[MattB]

Ah, but you need to be quite strong to get through granite with a shovel...

(Also, btw, you can never phase or teleport into a vault).

[Nivra]

Yes, this is why I tend to always buy a pick rather than a shovel. Because you can dig through granite with a pick.

[Grotug]

Ah, but you need to be quite strong to get through granite with a shovel...

(Also, btw, you can never phase or teleport into a vault).

Even a vault without permanent walls?

[Carnivean]

Even a vault without permanent walls?

Yep. Phase and teleport can never end in a vault. It's a good escape tool for being in a dangerous spot in a vault.

Note, there are "special rooms" that aren't vaults.

[Grotug]

Yep. Phase and teleport can never end in a vault. It's a good escape tool for being in a dangerous spot in a vault.

Note, there are "special rooms" that aren't vaults.

Good to know. I will try to remember this.

@Nivra: I would have, but I it's so heavy! Not good for someone who has hoarder tendencies. :-/

[Timo Pietilä]

Yep. Phase and teleport can never end in a vault.

With an exception of monster inside a vault teleporting you to it. All other teleports end up outside of the vault.

Note that earthquaked or destroyed part of the vault is no longer counted as vault, so you might end up in by doing earthquake or destruction close to vault and then phase dooring close to the wall.

Permanent walls are permanent. No methods of removing those (except maybe Sauron/Morgoth stair creation?)

[Derakon]

Permanent walls are permanent. No methods of removing those (except maybe Sauron/Morgoth stair creation?)

The stairs appear under them, and they can't stand in permanent walls, so no.

[Timo Pietilä]

The stairs appear under them, and they can't stand in permanent walls, so no.

What happens to artifacts if they happen to stand on one when killed? I have vague memory getting stairs created in a wall because floor was littered by artifacts. Not permanent wall though.

[Derakon]

What happens to artifacts if they happen to stand on one when killed? I have vague memory getting stairs created in a wall because floor was littered by artifacts. Not permanent wall though.

Hm, I thought the stairs got created before the monster's drop did, but I could be wrong. Would have to source dive to check and I'm too lazy right now.

[Timo Pietilä]

Hm, I thought the stairs got created before the monster's drop did, but I could be wrong. Would have to source dive to check and I'm too lazy right now.

Drops from summons. Artifacts are almost as indestructible as permanent walls, I think only destruction can remove one from the level.

[Werbaer]

Drops from summons. Artifacts are almost as indestructible as permanent walls, I think only destruction can remove one from the level.

I'm only familar with 2.7.9v6 to 3.0.5, but back then, artifacts couldn't even be removed by destruction. A staircase (or a wall) couldn't appear on a square with an artifact; if necessary, the stair was generated in (non-permanent) walls. And if there was no square within range (3 grids?) to drop an artifact, it teleported to someplace else on the level.

[Timo Pietilä]

I'm only familar with 2.7.9v6 to 3.0.5, but back then, artifacts couldn't even be removed by destruction. A staircase (or a wall) couldn't appear on a square with an artifact; if necessary, the stair was generated in (non-permanent) walls. And if there was no square within range (3 grids?) to drop an artifact, it teleported to someplace else on the level.

In more recent versions destruction (and earthquake) can remove artifacts. Makes clearing vaults a bit less easy task for someone that has access to unlimited destruction or earthquake.