how does experience recovery work?

[Grotug]

Often I go backwards in experience. Recently I went backwards about 100,000 experience (just three touches of the death mold is all it takes!) I have potions of restore life levels at home, but not with me in the dungeon. Then I came upon a potion of experience. I quaffed it and basically all the dang thing did was restore my experience to where it was. Made it green again. You might say, hey, that's great! But, no, it's not. I'd rather my experience still be yellow so that the experience gain wasn't just wasted; what a potion of restore life could have done (*much* more common to find). It is wasted in this manner. At least at this stage of the game 100,000 experience isn't that hard to earn. Still, I don't understand why my experience couldn't have remained yellow so that I could still gain more experience by quaffing a restore life (which I don't carry on me, I quaff them when I return to town).

So basically, other times when my experience slowly restores to green, does this mean I'm not really recovering lost experience? Seems like the only way to recover all lost experience is to quaff a potion of restore life *immediately* after losing experience. I thought when it returned to green it meant I had recovered lost experience, but now I see it does not mean that. Hrmph!

[Timo Pietilä]

Often I go backwards in experience. Recently I went backwards about 100,000 experience (just three touches of the death mold is all it takes!) I have potions of restore life levels at home, but not with me in the dungeon. Then I came upon a potion of experience. I quaffed it and basically all the dang thing did was restore my experience to where it was. Made it green again.

Are you sure it didn't restore it first? Like potions of stat, restore, then raise.

If it didn't then I count that as a bug, if for nothing else than just consistence reasons (everything else that raises something also restores it first).

[MattB]

When you're yellow, 100% of XP gained goes onto your current (yellow) XP figure, but only 10% goes onto your Max (green) XP figure. Or something like that.

[MattB]

Are you sure it didn't restore it first? Like potions of stat, restore, then raise.

If it didn't then I count that as a bug, if for nothing else than just consistence reasons (everything else that raises something also restores it first).

Yeah Timo, you're right dammit! Potions of Experience just aren't good enough as they are! They're only worth drinking when you're faint from hunger!

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Are you sure it didn't restore it first? Like potions of stat, restore, then raise.

If it didn't then I count that as a bug, if for nothing else than just consistence reasons (everything else that raises something also restores it first).

Not a bug. !Experience has never restored, then raised experience. It used to have a limitation on how much experience was given, so at the lower CL's it was better to wait until you leveled up before quaffing, but that was removed in about the 3.5 vintage or so. It gives the full 100,000 experience no matter what, but, if @ has been drained it is better to recover life levels before quaffing the !Experience.

[Carnivean]

just three touches of the death mold is all it takes!

Why were you within melee range of a death mold?

[Timo Pietilä]

Not a bug. !Experience has never restored, then raised experience. It used to have a limitation on how much experience was given, so at the lower CL's it was better to wait until you leveled up before quaffing, but that was removed in about the 3.5 vintage or so. It gives the full 100,000 experience no matter what, but, if @ has been drained it is better to recover life levels before quaffing the !Experience.

That's something I would like to change then. For consistency reasons. As I previously said, everything that raises something also restores it first if drained. If potion of experience doesn't, then that's breaking the unwritten rule. Newbies definitely would expect it to restore XP if they have experience of drained stats and stat-boost potions.

[Timo Pietilä]

Why were you within melee range of a death mold?

Sometimes you don't get a chance to avoid. I once ascended to next level using stairs right next to death mold. Nearly killed me with absolutely no way of avoiding it.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

That's something I would like to change then. For consistency reasons. As I previously said, everything that raises something also restores it first if drained. If potion of experience doesn't, then that's breaking the unwritten rule. Newbies definitely would expect it to restore XP if they have experience of drained stats and stat-boost potions.

I disagree about "consistency" here. 1. Stat swap potions and the recovery of stats on level up were additions a few versions ago, if I recall correctly. 2. Stats (Str, Int, Wis, Dex, Con) are not the same as experience. 3. !Experience are already quite powerful enough, and was made more powerful when the limitation of x% up to 100,000 was removed a couple versions ago.

Just as a newbie may learn the hard way about a stat swap potion, the same newbie may learn the hard way about an experience potion. Plus, a newbie, by definition, doesn't (or at least shouldn't) have expectations about what a potion will do. The newbie has to learn from the help files, the forum, the spoilers, or, uh hmm, dare I say it, ... experience.

[Timo Pietilä]

I disagree about "consistency" here. 1. Stat swap potions and the recovery of stats on level up were additions a few versions ago, if I recall correctly. 2. Stats (Str, Int, Wis, Dex, Con) are not the same as experience. 3. !Experience are already quite powerful enough, and was made more powerful when the limitation of x% up to 100,000 was removed a couple versions ago.

Just as a newbie may learn the hard way about a stat swap potion, the same newbie may learn the hard way about an experience potion. Plus, a newbie, by definition, doesn't (or at least shouldn't) have expectations about what a potion will do. The newbie has to learn from the help files, the forum, the spoilers, or, uh hmm, dare I say it, ... experience.

Stat swap potions do restore drained stat if that's the stat that is being raised (unless that has been changed again). All the single stat potions restore stats. Augmentation restores stats. Changing Experience potion to restore first is tiny change in gameplay. XP restores are plentiful in the game.

So the change in small, it just makes things more consistent.

[EDIT] forgot *enlightement* that too restores first, then raises.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Stat swap potions do restore drained stat if that's the stat that is being raised (unless that has been changed again). All the single stat potions restore stats. Augmentation restores stats. Changing Experience potion to restore first is tiny change in gameplay. XP restores are plentiful in the game.

So the change in small, it just makes things more consistent.

[EDIT] forgot *enlightement* that too restores first, then raises.

Yes, they do restore stats. I guess we just disagree that Stats and Experience are, or even should be, the same. In any event, I think !Experience is quite powerful enough as it is.

[AnonymousHero]

Yes, they do restore stats. I guess we just disagree that Stats and Experience are, or even should be, the same. In any event, I think !Experience is quite powerful enough as it is.

Huh? AFAICT having !Exp restore stats would just remove a gotcha... It's not as if it's difficult to find !RestoreLife. /me is puzzled.

[MattB]

Huh? AFAICT having !Exp restore stats would just remove a gotcha... It's not as if it's difficult to find !RestoreLife. /me is puzzled.

What's wrong with gotchas?

[Timo Pietilä]

What's wrong with gotchas?

When it is in game rules, then it is bad. When it comes from game tactics, then it is good.

[Nivra]

I agree with Timo. I had this exact thought while playing earlier.

Also, I think we should have a new stat swap potion:

Potion of Wondrous Growth.
Raises a random stat significantly, and decreases a different random stat.

Would you quaff a potion that raised one stat 3 but lowered another by 1? It's a stat lottery, and IMO, I'd quaff it, eventhough sometimes it would result in more pain.