A Few New Player Questions

[AnonymousHero]

(snip)

If I may interject... maybe you should try actually playing the game to its conclusion (or at least close to it) before forming so many conclusions about what it should and shouldn't be.

My general impression is that the developers are very receptive to ideas, but you have to have an informed idea and be able to argue points and counter-points before lunging into an "assault" on the forums .

[Scampada]

I'm guessing you got killed by Bullroarer? If you're playing a squishy class, have some Phase Door scrolls and a ranged attack -- even a wimpy Wand of Magic Missile will do. Bullroarer has very few HP.

No, I hadn't been killed. But it's absolutely unnatural.

How did you lock the door? There's no way as far as I'm aware to lock doors in Angband 4.0 once they've been opened. You can close a door, but any monster that is smart enough to open doors (and hobbits are definitely that smart) can open it in a single action.

Shift+d did the thing. There was a message 'You locked the door.' Though it could be opened by me or by anyone else in one turn (I mean visual turn). If I did that, I got a message 'You picked the lock' and the door got opened. So this didn't differ from just opening it.

There isn't ANY locked doors, if I'd say... Before or after they got opened...

[Derakon]

But what kind of tactics can we speak of if I can not flee a hobbit that runs like a behemoth crushing doors in his way?

I'm guessing you got killed by Bullroarer? If you're playing a squishy class, have some Phase Door scrolls and a ranged attack -- even a wimpy Wand of Magic Missile will do. Bullroarer has very few HP.

How many turns does it cost to make a single step? I'm running away of a ...say, hobbit, then see a door. It's only one or two cells between us separated by door. I close it and lock it and keep running, and as I make one or two steps away of the door it opens with a slam-bang clatter and there is the hobbit in the door opening...

How did you lock the door? There's no way as far as I'm aware to lock doors in Angband 4.0 once they've been opened. You can close a door, but any monster that is smart enough to open doors (and hobbits are definitely that smart) can open it in a single action.

[Scampada]

Okay. It may depend not on special item like lockpicks, but on race and stats.

The bigger you are - the easier it is to bash a door for ya.
The smaller you are, the easier it is to pick locks.
Strength helps in bashing.
Dexterity and\or Intelligence helps in picking locks.

So, if you're a troll you can easily take a door off but you will wake up all nearby monsters.
Or if you are a small gnome or hobbit your little fingers easily will pick the lock.

Or something

[Scampada]

Angband is not that type of game. It's much more of a tactical combat game with significant inventory constraints. Angband explicitly doesn't have containers that you can stash things in, because you're supposed to be making difficult decisions about what items are most useful. It also doesn't have permanent levels because we don't want the player to be constantly running back and forth to get the "right items" from their stash for whatever challenge they're facing on a new level. The basic gameplay of Angband is "I have a limited set of tools I can carry with me, and must face a wide variety of monsters and terrain with those tools." Deciding what to bring and therefore which challenges will be easy and which ones hard is central to Angband's difficulty.

But what kind of tactics can we speak of if I can not flee a hobbit that runs like a behemoth crushing doors in his way?

Incidentally, monsters have to make multiple attempts to open doors. If you have telepathy, then you can see them trying to open or break down doors, and failing many times over before they succeed. It is of course a probabilistic system, though, so sometimes they succeed quickly and sometimes it takes longer. In either case, though, it can seem to happen quickly because the player is taking many turns doing other things while the monsters singlemindedly work on their doors.

How many turns does it cost to make a single step? I'm running away of a ...say, hobbit, then see a door. It's only one or two cells between us separated by door. I close it and lock it and keep running, and as I make one or two steps away of the door it opens with a slam-bang clatter and there is the hobbit in the door opening...

[Scampada]

Haha!

No selling
Shopkeepers will never pay you for items you sell... blah blah blah... To balance out income in the game, gold found will be increased.

So, that's exactly why I have 40000 AU after a day of playing without knowing where to tap them out! not because I'm clever & lucky, yeah

[Derakon]

Angband and NetHack are very different games. NetHack is sort-of a "simulationist" type of game -- there's a ton of different systems and tools and commands and items that all have weird little niche uses, and the game is in large part about knowing what items do what, which ones are worth keeping / stashing, and which weird interactions are helpful. NetHack is in a way kind of like an old "adventure" game (like King's Quest or Monkey Island) with a combat engine.

Angband is not that type of game. It's much more of a tactical combat game with significant inventory constraints. Angband explicitly doesn't have containers that you can stash things in, because you're supposed to be making difficult decisions about what items are most useful. It also doesn't have permanent levels because we don't want the player to be constantly running back and forth to get the "right items" from their stash for whatever challenge they're facing on a new level. The basic gameplay of Angband is "I have a limited set of tools I can carry with me, and must face a wide variety of monsters and terrain with those tools." Deciding what to bring and therefore which challenges will be easy and which ones hard is central to Angband's difficulty.

I'm not saying that NetHack is bad, nor that there's nothing Angband can learn from other roguelikes. But Angband is not going to have a tool that can only be applied in one specific scenario. Lockpicks to open doors (or iron spikes to jam them) are needlessly specific. If you could come up with a more generically-useful item that can also be used to make doors more interesting at a tactical level, then sure, that could be worth considering.

Incidentally, monsters have to make multiple attempts to open doors. If you have telepathy, then you can see them trying to open or break down doors, and failing many times over before they succeed. It is of course a probabilistic system, though, so sometimes they succeed quickly and sometimes it takes longer. In either case, though, it can seem to happen quickly because the player is taking many turns doing other things while the monsters singlemindedly work on their doors.

[Scampada]

Thanks! I'm building it already and will give it a try.

I think it's OK! It has the same UI as vanilla Ang. Cool stuff! *bands live.

[Mondkalb]

If only I found a fork or Angband-like UI and extended gameplay - that would be the best option.

Do you know FAangband?
It is focused on Tolkien's "First Age" mythology as described in "The Silmarillion" and stripped of all characters and items from the later works (The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings).
There are some different races and classes and a magic system with four classes instead of the two in vanilla.
Lots of new items come in from the ancient times as well as some additional skills for the various classes.
FAangband has lots of different wilderness levels, featuring the vast landscapes from grassy plains and thick woods to swamps and deserts. Also, the actual terrain the player and monsters are standing on may modify their ability to move and to hide.
There are four lesser dungeons at some famous places with lesser guardians and the main dungeon with Morgoth.
At last, FAangband has several towns instead of only one, some of them with only three shops, some with more.

http://angband.oook.cz/faangband/

FAangband decends from Oangband:

http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=First_Age_Angband

[Scampada]

If only I found a fork or Angband-like UI and extended gameplay - that would be the best option.

[AnonymousHero]

It's possible to make two gameplay modes in Angband... Say, slash'em mode and expert mode which provides unopenable heavy locked doors, bashing them is much heavier and depends strongly on race, class and strength... Add boxes (packs) to inventory... and all that stuff.

Well, techincally almost anything is possible, but it requires someone to do the work. (Or getting the developers to agree to your vision of the game should be.)

I don't see Angband moving towards a move Nethack'y gameplay any time soon -- nor ever, really. Angband is Angband and it's never been that much about item interactions and such.

What some people count as tedious, other people like as good stuff.

Indeed, which is why you should find the game that works best for you.

[Scampada]

That is the new default "no selling" option. You can change it in the "=" menu, but it is a birth option and only works with a new character.

Well... that's stranger and stranger

No trade + no door locking. o_O

[Mondkalb]

---snip---
By the way. Why all the merchants refuse to pay me in gold for everything? They agree to get an item when I press 's' (sell) but all these items are marked as '0 au'. I'm just giving them stuff.

That is the new default "no selling" option. You can change it in the "=" menu, but it is a birth option and only works with a new character.

[Scampada]

It's possible to make two gameplay modes in Angband... Say, slash'em mode and expert mode which provides unopenable heavy locked doors, bashing them is much heavier and depends strongly on race, class and strength... Add boxes (packs) to inventory... and all that stuff.

What some people count as tedious, other people like as good stuff.

[Scampada]

Have you tried FAangband?
It has more of the stuff you seem to be after than Vanilla.

Is it based on latest versions of Angband? I don't want just removing it: it has one of the coolest roguelike UI.

If it was possible to mix them like modules... Say, Angband 4 UI and something...