To play with artifacts or not?

[Malak Darkhunter]

I am currently playing angband without the creation of artifacts, is this going to make things harder for me? I don't want to get tied up with artifact hunting, as this makes me feel like I have to have certain artifacts to advance deeper in the game. I know certain resists may not be covered this way, yet I think it might be more enjoyable with a more simplistic approach to the game. Finding then having to get rid of rid of artifacts as I go along is kind of a headache.

[Pete Mack]

I am currently playing angband without the creation of artifacts, is this going to make things harder for me? I don't want to get tied up with artifact hunting, as this makes me feel like I have to have certain artifacts to advance deeper in the game. I know certain resists may not be covered this way, yet I think it might be more enjoyable with a more simplistic approach to the game. Finding then having to get rid of rid of artifacts as I go along is kind of a headache.

I have tried it a few times; it's definitely a challenge game, although if you find Boots of Speed, things get a lot easier. Your equipment will be limited to a pretty small number of ego items, depending mostly on race/class combination.
(High-Elf or Dunadan Rogue is a pretty good choice--high stealth and good HP count for a lot.)

Here's the result of a challenge competition from a couple years ago.

[Remuz]

I would advise against going without artifacts, if you are not a seasoned player. Angband is hard enough to play as it is, and I don't think you will ever have to hunt for a specific artifact. Later in the dungeon, the amount of drops is so high that artifacts tend to "naturally" drop.

I have never tried artifact-less, though, so I may be wrong.

[Djabanete]

I am currently playing angband without the creation of artifacts, is this going to make things harder for me?

Yes.

I don't want to get tied up with artifact hunting, as this makes me feel like I have to have certain artifacts to advance deeper in the game.

You don't. I don't think there is even a single artifact that you must have in order to win the game. There's a lot of redundancy among artifacts.

I know certain resists may not be covered this way, yet I think it might be more enjoyable with a more simplistic approach to the game. Finding then having to get rid of rid of artifacts as I go along is kind of a headache.

You may well find artifactless play very enjoyable, and you may also find that it makes you a better player. I haven't tried playing artifactless but I have tried other challenge games and that has been my experience. Good luck!

[Melchizedek]

The big problem about going artifact-less is that high resists are so important in late game, and certain artifacts are required to get a good set of resists. Also, speed is a major factor. Boots of speed are great and all, but you're going to have to have more than that to stay alive down there.

If you want to play without artifacts, maybe try playing a Umoria direct port. Not sure if there are any of those around that work well (I just downloaded one, but haven't tried it yet), but that might be more what you're looking for.

[zaimoni]

The big problem about going artifact-less is that high resists are so important in late game, and certain artifacts are required to get a good set of resists.

What playing artifactless does is guarantee that Power Dragon Scale Mail belongs in your endgame kit. Also, the item revisions in the JLE patch (V3.0.0 onwards) mitigate the resistance issues as well.

[Matthias]

What playing artifactless does is guarantee that Power Dragon Scale Mail belongs in your endgame kit. Also, the item revisions in the JLE patch (V3.0.0 onwards) mitigate the resistance issues as well.

You can't really hope to find one though, considering how rare it is. You will have to make a tradeoff and likely resistances are among the saver things to gnore. If you are waiting for the perfect setup you'll be playing forever. I think Eddie won that competition Pete mentioned in less than 1mil turns.
Direct link: http://www.angband-comp.pwp.blueyond...results30.html

Note that the dump linked to the winner is actually that of the second place. The true winner dump should be on rgra somewhere

[Malak Darkhunter]

I just beat Sangband, farthest I had taken a character yet, and the thing I noticed is that there were a lot of great ego item drops, yet they were practically worthless in reality when you had a whole arsenal of artifacts to use, that outshone the ego items. The ego items seems to be randomly created, so there is just a bit more excitment finding something different, without a set power level as on artifacts. It's kind of like being bombarded with a 1000 ego items, just to drop them in favor of an artifact. By the end of the game I had gotten rid of all my artifacts except what was end-game useful. My home was full of artifacts I didn't really need. I think a high level ego item is more unique, than an artifact since it's power level is pre-determined. Without artifacts I don't need to fill my home with artifacts I am not sure to keep or not. And to be honest a lot of them only cover a few resistances, grant bonuses, etc. that keeps attention away from the things that you really need. It's kind of like a red herring with no real use at all. Multi-hued dragon scale mail for example, I would rather have than the full plate mail of Isildur, since it dosen't cover poison resistance, and that's what I beat the game with. I believe a player should be able to beat the game with or without artifacts, using several different kinds of strategies.

[Garrie]

In V I think the biggest issue would be lack of permenant light. I am playing 3.0.5, dunno if ego lights have made an appearance since then?

especially if this is the same @ as the warrior thread...

[bonzo]

The ego items seems to be randomly created, so there is just a bit more excitment finding something different, without a set power level as on artifacts. It's kind of like being bombarded with a 1000 ego items, just to drop them in favor of an artifact. By the end of the game I had gotten rid of all my artifacts except what was end-game useful. My home was full of artifacts I didn't really need. I think a high level ego item is more unique, than an artifact since it's power level is pre-determined.

How about playing with random artifacts on? Would that help with at least part of what you don't like about ego and artifact items?

Or maybe randarts is still broken/in testing in V...

[Melchizedek]

As far as I know, randarts are supposed to function like superego items, and it would definitely create some variation in the game. If you look at people's endgame kits with static artifacts, they do all sort of look the same. I've never played with randarts though, so I don't know for sure. Might give it a shot next go-round.

[camlost]

I believe a player should be able to beat the game with or without artifacts, using several different kinds of strategies.

You can "beat" Steamband with neither artifacts nor ego items.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=5787

[Malak Darkhunter]

So what exactly does turning on randomizing artifacts do? Does the game create new artifacts? Or does it mean that the same artifacts recieve random bonuses? If the game created new artifacts all the time then that would be interesting indeed, one would never know what he would find. And that makes the whole game enjoyable.

[roustk]

So what exactly does turning on randomizing artifacts do? Does the game create new artifacts? Or does it mean that the same artifacts recieve random bonuses? If the game created new artifacts all the time then that would be interesting indeed, one would never know what he would find. And that makes the whole game enjoyable.

In V, the entire list of artifacts is replaced (at game start) with a new list of artifacts. The artifacts have random powers and resists, but generally have similar "power" to the corresponding original artifact.

For example, in my current randart game I have found this artifact:

The Set of Cesti 'Brion' [5,+25]
--------------------------------
It increases your dexterity by 5. It provides resistance to acid. It grants you immunity to paralysis. It activates for identify every 10 turns. It cannot be harmed by the elements.


From the activation, I know that Brion is basd on Eriril:

The Quarterstaff 'Eriril' (1d9) (+3,+5)
---------------------------------------
It increases your intelligence and wisdom by 4. It slays all evil creatures. It provides resistance to light. It lights the dungeon around you. It grants you the ability to see invisible things. It activates for identify every 10 turns. It cannot be harmed by the elements.


Using wizard mode, I can find out that Bladeturner has become significantly different, but is still quite powerful:

The Scimitar of Dalduil (4d5) (+13,+18)
---------------------------------------
It increases your wisdom and dexterity by 6. It increases your infravision and speed by 6. It slays animals, orcs, trolls, giants, and demons. It is branded with electricity. It provides resistance to lightning and fire. It sustains your wisdom and dexterity. It is blessed by the gods. It grants you the ability to see invisible things, but it also aggravates creatures around you. It activates for berserk rage, bless, and resistance every 400 turns. It cannot be harmed by the elements.


Kevin

[Melchizedek]

I guess I was wrong then. So randarts completely erase the normal artifact scheme? What would be better is if randarts ADDED to the general proliferation of artifacts, maybe in reduction of the piles and piles of worthless ego items at midgame. Would make a much more diverse endgame.

Of course, the drop rate on *Identify* scrolls would have to be significantly increased, or make not all randarts have their powers hidden.

So I suppose the equipment focus would flow from average to good to exellent to special, and there would be enough special items to merit the change.

And maybe a MUSEUM. heh.