Using "Consumable" Items - How Stingy/Liberal?

[Medieval]

I have a habit of holding on to consumable magic items--items with one use, or even items with charges--as long as possible. I keep wands until I decide I'm not going to use them anyway, so I sell them. (I'm playing version 3.4.0., so the default is to allow selling.) There are also a number of items, most notably mushrooms, that I have a tendency to never use at all.

This strategy seems to make sense to me, but it comes with the knowledge that I've never come close to winning a game. I think the best I've ever done is gotten a warrior to dungeon levels in the 30's. Usually I'm dead in the 20's. So I'm asking now, is there a better strategy for using "consumables"? Should I just use them and rely on the random appearance of items to take care of my character in the future? Are there items that you tend to ignore, especially at higher levels? For those who successfully get to the endgame, what is your pattern of the use of consumables?

Thanks in advance for any replies!

[Tibarius]

re: Consumables

To kill Morgoth the following consumables are great Support:
potions of *healing*, potions of life
Scrolls of Banishment, scrolls of mass Banishment

Everything else is not required to kill Morgoth. I always store those four items at home for the endfight, except if i carry some with me and am back on my way to store them and happen to be in a deadly situation.

Of course you can use those for the final fight - but if you do not quaff / read them NOW you maybe never see the final fight.

Better to use them up ... to collect new consumables is just a matter of time in the endgame. Of course it is boring - but it is just a matter of time.

Everything else is used up anyway ... just my 2 cents

[Thraalbee]

!Speed, !Heroism, !Berserk are all good to take down early bosees with. With some luck they will drop something really valuable making it more than worthwile the spend. The same goes for wands, zap/shoot/activate as much as possible against Azog and other early uniques. Mushrooms are so-so, I don't use them much except clear mind until I have rConf.
Wands and Staves are not so good for non-mage late in the game when foes start draining them, so if the choice is to spend a staff of speed or potions, I'd use the staff first.

[Derakon]

You should use an item if it's helpful. Given that you're still learning to play the game, you should definitely be erring on the side of using items too frequently rather than refraining from using them at all. There are some items that a skilled player will try to constrain their use of, specifically so they can be saved for the last fight in the game, but you have plenty to see before that becomes an issue. So go ahead. Try out those wands and potions. They can make otherwise-difficult fights a lot easier!

[MattB]

I agree with what's been said before. If you need to drink yuor potion of Life on dlvl 28 to ensure you see dlvl 29, then so be it. There will always be other potions of Life, if you survive long enough...

[mushroom patch]

I'm in somewhat the same boat when it comes to wands. I think you essentially spam wands until they're dead in the early game, mixing with spells to stretch out your mana over fights if you're a mage. There's no advantage to keeping them around, except teleport other, which remains useful throughout the game, and annhilations, which you might use against Morgoth if you're a mage.

I agree with others' advice re: learning the game, but wrt to wands specifically, I don't think you have to worry about playing suboptimally if you feel like you're "overusing" them. In rpgs in general, there's a tendency among players to be overly conservative with consumable items. This is a case where there's no need to be.

Consumable strategy in general is important. The main thing is to keep yourself stocked by hitting up shops, especially 7 for the exotic stuff, and recognizing the useful items on the floor. One important point is that teleport level is one of the most powerful effects in the game and you should use it liberally. I think orienting yourself to what's important in the game (surviving, not killing monsters, clearing vaults, or picking up cool items) and making consumable choices accordingly is one of the main steps in getting out of the dying around level 25 rut.

[debo]

Are you not able to "recharge" wands by selling them and then buying them back in 3.5.x? I thought that was a thing.

[Runaway1956]

I've not yet won a game, so my 2 cents may not be worth much.

I've always hoarded the various healing potions. This time around, I've made it to cl 50 and dl 76. I've found that the healing potions that my lower level characters have hoarded have almost no value now. CLW and CSW just don't cut it, now that I routinely take more than 200 hit points in damage in a single round of fighting. CCW is better, but it doesn't really make it either.

Healing and *Healing* are essential now. And, I use them as needed. I won't waste them, but failing to use them when needed will guarantee that I never get any deeper into the dungeon.

I wish that the *Healing* were dropped a little more often. Currently, I have 21 Healing, but only 2 *Healing* in inventory.

But - that is a large part of the game. How well you manage inventory is a big part of winning or losing!

Meanwhile, I've gotta break that level 76 barrier . . . .

[quarague]

In general you should use whatever consumables you find if they appear useful. Saving up consumables is only needed for the very last fight. Some info on specific things:
potions of speed are superpowerful early on, they double your speed if you are at the base speed, this often means you can kill a unique with little risk that would be impossible to defeat otherwise. Later on, if your base speed is increased through items, speed potions make much less of a difference, if your char uses arcane casting, you can also cast speed whenever needed.
potions CLW and CSW are only useful in the early game, and are sold in town, use as many as you want
potions CCW have some limited use later on to cure status effect but should still be used whenever needed
most damage wands only deal useful damage early on, if you don't use them then, they become useless quickly, the amount of money from selling them is also only significant early on, later on it's not worthwhile to pick them up

[Runaway1956]

potions of speed are superpowerful early on, . . . if your base speed is increased through items, speed potions make much less of a difference, if your char uses arcane casting, you can also cast speed whenever needed.up

I just found a second ring of speed. First one was +10, this one is +11. Added to +8 boots, +1 cloak of Aman, AND the speed spell, that makes +40 speed. It's a game changer. Speed, speed, speed. I don't suppose that I'll find any MORE speed anywhere!

I almost passed over that +11 speed, because I really liked that serpent ring of Barahir. But, it's worth it!

[Derakon]

Are you not able to "recharge" wands by selling them and then buying them back in 3.5.x? I thought that was a thing.

You can, but only for wands that the magic shop would normally sell as stock. So it can't recharge e.g. Teleport Other, Acid Balls, Dragon's Breath, etc. wands.

Regarding potions of speed: these are endgame consumables for warriors, paladins, and priests who plan on meleeing Morgoth, as the only other realistic source of temporary speed is Staves of Speed, which Morgoth's melee will drain to uselessness. Generally I try to keep a potion or two in inventory to use in hard fights, up until I get my first Staff of Speed. At that point, all potions of speed get hoarded at home and I use the staff for hard fights.

A potion of speed will trivialize almost any early game fight; notable exceptions are Azog and Mim, where the potion just makes the fights potentially doable at all.

[Carnivean]

that makes +40 speed. It's a game changer.

Speed suffers diminishing returns, to the point where aiming to be higher than +30 is probably not worth it. +30 means that no monster in the game can double attack you. Anything higher than +50 flat out gives you no improvement.

[the Invisible Stalker]

I hoard too much and overestimate how much I need, both in terms of consumables and equipment, for fights. I'd say that's my main weakness as a player. It's a bit odd, really. I'm not a much of a hoarder in real life. The last time I moved, a few months ago, I did so on foot with two suitcases.

[Derakon]

Speed suffers diminishing returns, to the point where aiming to be higher than +30 is probably not worth it. +30 means that no monster in the game can double attack you. Anything higher than +50 flat out gives you no improvement.

This isn't strictly true. Here's the speed table, from tables.c:

const byte extract_energy[200] =
{
    /* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
    /* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
    /* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
    /* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
    /* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
    /* Slow */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
    /* S-50 */     1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,  1,
    /* S-40 */     2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,
    /* S-30 */     2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  3,  3,  3,
    /* S-20 */     3,  3,  3,  3,  3,  4,  4,  4,  4,  4,
    /* S-10 */     5,  5,  5,  5,  6,  6,  7,  7,  8,  9,
    /* Norm */    10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19,
    /* F+10 */    20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29,
    /* F+20 */    30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 36, 37, 37,
    /* F+30 */    38, 38, 39, 39, 40, 40, 40, 41, 41, 41,
    /* F+40 */    42, 42, 42, 43, 43, 43, 44, 44, 44, 44,
    /* F+50 */    45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 46, 46, 46, 46, 46,
    /* F+60 */    47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 48, 48, 48, 48, 48,
    /* F+70 */    49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,
    /* Fast */    49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,
};

What this tells you is how much "energy" you get per game turn at a given speed level. Once you get 100 energy, you get to take a turn (and the same holds true for monsters). Thus at normal speed, there are 10 game turns for every player turn, because you get 10 energy per game turn. At +10 speed, you get 20 energy per game turn, so it only takes five to get a player turn. At +50 speed, you get 45, and things don't actually cap out until +70 speed when you get 49.

That doesn't change the fact that the utility of extra speed experiences pretty sharp diminishing returns above +30.

[Timo Pietilä]

I hoard too much and overestimate how much I need, both in terms of consumables and equipment, for fights. I'd say that's my main weakness as a player. It's a bit odd, really. I'm not a much of a hoarder in real life. The last time I moved, a few months ago, I did so on foot with two suitcases.

I could do that if those suitcases were replaced by freight containers with handles and a giant robot to carry them. Not sure if two would suffice though.

I don't really count overpreparing as weakness. It's far better that other way around, and all you need to do that is a bit more time. If you don't get bored preparing, then go with proper overkill. That's how I do it anyway. To me overkill is far more satisfactory than just barely able to kill something.