Reducing Turncount

[MattB]

Not that I pay the faintest attention to score, but if you're going to...

...I think FA has it about right.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Different scoring systems for all classes!

[myshkin]

I think Psi (or someone else) had another character where they tried to gain the most levels at once. They stair scummed for a longbow and arrows and two-shotted an Erinyes to go from level 1 to level 31. Again, fun once, but super tedious.

I think I am guilty of this crime against moral rectitude, as part of a Hellband competition, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Psi also did it, and better.

[PowerWyrm]

Just play an alchemist in ToME2 and kill some mature dragon with your starting potion of detonations.

[mushroom patch]

Of course, I don't begrudge anyone their fun playing wild and woolly games of angband and dying between level 25 and 30 most of the time, but I would say that there's a lot of value in having a vital competitive scene in a game, especially a publicly accessible scene with spectating and so on, as you see with nethack and crawl. A good scoring scheme really helps there.

I mean, of course no one takes score seriously as it is currently implemented. I only started playing angband again a few months ago after about a fifteen year absence (and only then started winning). My first win, which I regard as my worst, was the highest scoring. I did the usual careful scumming, looting, and unique clearing approach, won at xp level 50 in like 1.6mil game turns. My most recent win is my best, but winning at xp level 47 with fairly bad equipment hurts your score (!). Top scoring ladder games have like 64mil turns or something... Probably not something you'd want to encourage.

[fizzix]

I mean, of course no one takes score seriously as it is currently implemented. I only started playing angband again a few months ago after about a fifteen year absence (and only then started winning). My first win, which I regard as my worst, was the highest scoring. I did the usual careful scumming, looting, and unique clearing approach, won at xp level 50 in like 1.6mil game turns. My most recent win is my best, but winning at xp level 47 with fairly bad equipment hurts your score (!). Top scoring ladder games have like 64mil turns or something... Probably not something you'd want to encourage.

A while back (way back) I theorycrafted what would be desirable for "compband." The only parts I remembered were setting up level editors so that you could make specific challenges (including persistant levels or similar). I think I was also looking at the way of making real time competitions as well. You have a specific challenge and whoever gets to the goal first wins.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

A while back (way back) I theorycrafted what would be desirable for "compband." The only parts I remembered were setting up level editors so that you could make specific challenges (including persistant levels or similar).

Some randomness may be desirable in competitions. That same element makes playing boardgames fun even against better players. In best boardgames, IMO, the player with the highest skill wins let's say 85% of the time.

[PowerWyrm]

I think I was also looking at the way of making real time competitions as well. You have a specific challenge and whoever gets to the goal first wins.

We used to do that a lot in MAngband! One of the admin could use a sector of the wilderness, build some challenge area with the Dungeon Master command menu (layout + monsters + reward), and then inform the community of the challenge. For example, clear the castle of death and retrieve the power DSM in the central chamber. This is probably the perfect variant for real time competitions.

[flechette]

I think Psi (or someone else) had another character where they tried to gain the most levels at once. They stair scummed for a longbow and arrows and two-shotted an Erinyes to go from level 1 to level 31. Again, fun once, but super tedious.

That was me! From 1 to 33 in one kill, but it was 998491 turns before that kill happened. Scroll to the bottom to see the (fairly short) character log.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=10045

[Jax]

ive also been wondering a couple of things regarding turncount.
There are game turns and standard turns. One thing ive noticed in my play is that i have very low standard turns and very high game turns traditionally compared to many other characters. even my latest character has something like 50kstandard, 420kgame. other people's characters that i have seen also have this but nowhere near that ratio, so more like 50kstandard to 200kgame.

What is the relationship between the two? Which would you regard as a better gauge of the "speed" in which you complete the game?

I would like to optimise/find most efficient way to complete the game by turncount:>
as mentioned by people in this thread before i would be interested in setting some rules for a compband where the score is based on "turns" in some sense, disconnected stairs, turns in town dont count etc. possible handicaps on turncount eventually for race/class combos

[Derakon]

Game turns are absolute game time -- you can convert a set number of game turns into a set number of in-game days (I believe the ratio is something like 100000 game turns = 1 day). Standard turns are the number of actions you take; thus, the ratio between standard turns and game turns depends on your current speed.

At normal speed, each standard turn takes 10 game turns, but as you get faster, you get a more favorable ratio. A hypothetical character who got a Ring of Speed +10 from Farmer Maggot before entering the dungeon could easily expect to take 100k game turns less than they otherwise would have, not just because speed is so powerful but because their entire early game has just doubled in speed.

Generally it's thus worth paying more attention to standard turns than to game turns, because they don't fluctuate massively depending on how much of a single specific bonus you get, and how early.

[Jax]

the way im reading this is that if you move 1 square at +0 speed, its 1 standard turn, and if you move 1 square at +10 its also 1 standard turn, but fewer game turns?

if this is the case then standard turns definitely seem to be the best way to measure performance/efficiency/speed should one choose to.

[Derakon]

Yes, your understanding is correct.