Kinda new to Angband...what do you think of this approach?

[Ehrblast]

Ive quickly become engrossed in Angband. I'm amazed this game can be beaten; I kick and scream when I die at cl10. That's the highest ive gotten.
Basically, Ive been hovering just below town, occasionally going as deep as dl5, though once a scroll of deep descent brought me down to dl11 [scary]. The guides speak lot of the benefits of diving deep and being deliberate in that action. I find that when ive done that, I get overpowered before I can find the upstairs.
Tactically, does anyone see issue with hanging around the very upper levels of the dungeon to "grind" so to speak: getting gold, scrolls, experience? Do any of you do that? Can you share your technique for newly created characters? The guide had mentioned being able to go down to dl10 in the first go; My play style isnt that aggressive, and I haven't been able to do that successfully.
I find myself doing this specifically to get gold, as there is no selling. By cl10, Ive got the chain or scale mail, and a 1d10 trident or 2d5 pike, and a good hoard of scrolls, potions, torches, projectiles, etc.
I'm restarting my character atm, so how long should i stay with this technique? Stay shallow for a while, occasionally going deep? If Im going to beat this game, i gotta go deep so, should I just push it? Lot of though needed for this game.
My character is a ranger, and I typically play rangers.
Just looking for advice and conversation about this freekin great game. Been a long time since Ive played Moria and the like back in the day.

[sam_snowy]

As someone who still not have a winner, I can only say a few experience I had when I started playing angband. As a newbie, i'll say you're going to die quite a few times but you'll learn something every time so don't feel "too" conservative. Just play safe and cast detection spells.

It's been a while since I played rangers, but I believe you get extra shots with arrow at clvl 20 and clvl 40. I'll suggest to slow down from diving too much until you hit those points (as your dps increases dramatically from that point).

As always, try to get the base four resistence, free action(very important) and seeInvis before you go past the 2000 mark (or is it 1000/1500). There are quite a few monsters that would be either invis and hit to reduce stat so it's extremely annoying to play without it. There was a guide about it and I basically always follow the start of it. later on you would need to have resist poison but that's in the mid game so it's not that important for now.

Telepathy is kinda rare, but I definitely recommend it because it reveals most monsters around you even when you dont have line of sight. Try to get one as soon as possible.

But generally speaking starting as a ranger, just buy scrolls to enhance your bow and you'll be doing some decent dps. The lack of ID until much later would be annoying but I guess psuedoID would do for a while until you get the spell.

BTW is no_selling option on by default? Turning it off would ease the start of the game as you'll have a more steady income for potions/scrolls and the occasional rare stuff in the black market. It'll also make you focus more on gameplay as later in the game gold become basically just a number.

[AnonymousHero]

Ive quickly become engrossed in Angband. I'm amazed this game can be beaten; I kick and scream when I die at cl10. That's the highest ive gotten.
Basically, Ive been hovering just below town, occasionally going as deep as dl5, though once a scroll of deep descent brought me down to dl11 [scary]. The guides speak lot of the benefits of diving deep and being deliberate in that action. I find that when ive done that, I get overpowered before I can find the upstairs.
Tactically, does anyone see issue with hanging around the very upper levels of the dungeon to "grind" so to speak: getting gold, scrolls, experience? Do any of you do that? Can you share your technique for newly created characters? The guide had mentioned being able to go down to dl10 in the first go; My play style isnt that aggressive, and I haven't been able to do that successfully.

It sounds like you are playing with disconnected stairs. Is that right?

Re: Getting overrun: As a relatively squishy character you need to be very picky about when you engage in combat. You may simply be playing too aggressively combat-wise, but not aggressively enough diving-wise.

I find myself doing this specifically to get gold, as there is no selling. By cl10, Ive got the chain or scale mail, and a 1d10 trident or 2d5 pike, and a good hoard of scrolls, potions, torches, projectiles, etc.

This may be a case of not buying the right items. At early levels all non-Warrioresque classes can be a big fragile, so you need to invest in escapes: Prioritize buying ?PhaseDoor, ?WoR (just need a few to avoid having the last one burned), _Teleportation (for escaping when Confused/Blinded) and !CCW. These are by far the most important thing and should be prioritized over armor, weapons, etc. Unless I've forgotten something, you don't really need any other scrolls/potions.

However, for a ranger you probably want a Long Bow which you can enchant up as you go (with any ?EnchantWeapon you find/buy). I wouldn't bother buying any armor, boots, etc. unless a particularly useful one pops in the BM or shop. Boots of Stability or some armor of Elvenkind, though you probably won't be able to afford the latter anyway during the early game.

I'm restarting my character atm, so how long should i stay with this technique? Stay shallow for a while, occasionally going deep? If Im going to beat this game, i gotta go deep so, should I just push it? Lot of though needed for this game.
My character is a ranger, and I typically play rangers.
Just looking for advice and conversation about this freekin great game. Been a long time since Ive played Moria and the like back in the day.

I would give diving a go -- basically you should always be at a dungeon level where you're slightly out of your depth, i.e. always in moderate danger. This will (by necessity and with a bit of practice) make you a lot more careful and pay a lot more attention to what you're doing. Try to avoid the urge to go up to shallower levels. You just need to a) accept that you'll die a lot during the early game until you get a hang of the diving play-style, and b) be a lot more selective about when you engage monsters.

[AnonymousHero]

As always, try to get the base four resistence, free action(very important) and seeInvis before you go past the 2000 mark (or is it 1000/1500). There are quite a few monsters that would be either invis and hit to reduce stat so it's extremely annoying to play without it. There was a guide about it and I basically always follow the start of it. later on you would need to have resist poison but that's in the mid game so it's not that important for now.

This advice is (IMO) overly conservative.

If you're playing the diving style then you really don't want to come to a complete stop at these levels. Instead you'll want to be more careful about engaging monsters and detecting them before they detect you. Luckily Rangers get detection quite early even though it's a bit expensive SP-wise.

(This doesn't change the fact that rBase and rPois are critical to have at certain depths, but you definitely don't want to come to a complete stop until you have them. Just avoid heavy breathers via detection and simply avoid their section of the level.)

Typically the gear you need is native to a depth slightly deeper than the level you need it at, so you'll need less luck to find such gear on e.g. the floor of the dungeon.

BTW is no_selling option on by default? Turning it off would ease the start of the game as you'll have a more steady income for potions/scrolls and the occasional rare stuff in the black market. It'll also make you focus more on gameplay as later in the game gold become basically just a number.

To OP: Please don't do turn no_selling off until you've at least played for a good while! It reduces grindiness hugely. I was actually opposed to this change initially, but after playing it, I'm a huge proponent and I think that selling (for other than ID purposes) should in fact be removed completely.

[Djabanete]

This is the distillation of my Angband knowledge:
(i) Forget about killing everything. Death is waiting around the corner. Avoid it.
(ii) Learn to tell when the fight is going badly.
(iii) Run away.

Your character needs the following utilities, from inventory or spells:
(a) detection (of monsters if possible; hard for warriors to find)
(b) healing;
(c) escapes.

My only problem with grinding is that item (i) goes out the window. While grinding at shallow levels and killing jackals, you forget that something worse could be lying in wait. Item (ii) means you should fight sowly and deliberately, again remembering that you're not immortal. Item (iii) is obvious --- run the heck away. There are thousands of monsters but @ has just one life.

Detection, healing, and escaping are the survival trifecta. If you ever gain the capacity to detect items, monsters, dungeon layout, or traps --- whether this capacity comes from a spell or an item --- do not sacrifice this capacity ever (unless it's scrolls/staves and you have run out, which is unavoidable). Detection is less important while grinding shallow levels, but ultra important later in the dungeon. Healing and escaping are always crucial. Without ensuring that your character can do these things as soon as money and/or spells allow, the guidelines I mentioned first are nothing. (You can't do (i) without detection, and you can't do (iii) without escape capabilities.)

I have not played Vanilla Angband recently, so I don't know what items and spells are available early in the game anymore. Last I checked, in addition to spells, you could buy Potions of Cure [___] Wounds, Potions of Heroism and Scrolls of Phase Door at the shop. That covers healing and escaping. In the dungeon you might find Wands of Slow/Sleep Monster, which can also count as escapes. Detection in the form of items tends to come last, so Warriors get the short end of the stick there, but at least they're resilient.

Hope that helps a bit!

[Carnivean]

I find myself doing this specifically to get gold, as there is no selling. By cl10, Ive got the chain or scale mail, and a 1d10 trident or 2d5 pike, and a good hoard of scrolls, potions, torches, projectiles, etc.

The point of diving is that the dungeon will provide good equipment well before you will be able to buy it. Gold is for consumables (potions, scrolls) so you really don't need that much of it.

Also don't turn off "no-selling". If anything you get more gold with it on, as the game adjusts the drop values.

[Mondkalb]

Besides the long bow, don't forget to buy lots of arrows. When I started the game playing rangers many years ago, I carried far too few arrows with me. Nowadays I usually start with ~100 arrows.

To hang around on shallow levels for a while can be useful to find out about unidentified scrolls and potions.

Avoid monster groups in the early game, unless you can pick them up one by one in a small corridor (that might still be dangerous if you encounter spellcasters).

A ranger can safely kill all non-moving monsters like mushrooms and jellies from afar with arrows. Early on the give good experience points.

[Zikke]

Diving is something that the long-time experienced players here think that everybody should do, based on [insert theorycraft here]. I've never agreed with making this tactic the "norm" or recommended, but rather as something that people naturally do after they're familiar with the game.

Play conservative. It's turn-based, so be analytical with each turn if you're in trouble. Always keep escapes available (scrolls, staves, etc.).

Don't feel obligated to dive.

[Mondkalb]

And don't stay too long on one level. Monsters wake up after a while and after a very long time even new monsters are created.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

I found that watching "Let's Play Angband" videos posted by Fizzix on YouTube made a quantum leap in my playing ability. Give them a try and I'm sure you will soon be diving successfully.

[AnonymousHero]

Diving is something that the long-time experienced players here think that everybody should do, based on [insert theorycraft here]. I've never agreed with making this tactic the "norm" or recommended, but rather as something that people naturally do after they're familiar with the game.

That's a straw man if ever I saw one .

I can't speak for anyone else, but I dive(ish) because it makes the game more fun. There's a lot more excitement in always being a hair's breadth away from death and always being slightly out of your depth. The other way lies slaughtering endless hordes of orcs and then dying anyway to a Drolem breath because you got used to not having to detect and if necessasry avoid stuff further down.

Btw, there are degrees of diving. You could be actively looking for the down-stairs, you could have a rule of thumb that says "I will take the first/second/third down-stairs I happen upon", etc.

[Estie]

For the grinding approach you described, the superior race choice is dwarf. They get a digging bonus and a chance to detect nodes and can get filthy rich earlier than other races. It is an effective approach, but at some point everyone has to learn how to play the game. Once that is done, ignoring veins and rather diving faster turns out to be more effective. As for how that is done, there have been plenty of excellent tips by previous posters above.

Another, similar approach would be to play warrior instead of ranger. Warriors can go deeper than others before running into problems.

[Timo Pietilä]

Ive quickly become engrossed in Angband. I'm amazed this game can be beaten; I kick and scream when I die at cl10. That's the highest ive gotten.

Try H-Troll warrior to learn the game.

Get light weapon: the more blows you make the more damage you make. Light weapons allow you to get more than heavy ones (until you have increased your STR and DEX quite a lot). It's very rare that less blows will give you more damage / turn especially early in game.

Get escapes. At early levels phase door scrolls. A lot of them.

Get detection. For warrior you need them later, for spellcaster-races ASAP. Detecting things before they detect you is key to survival (there are few exceptions that will detect you further away than you can detect them, but early game that is not an issue).

Get a bow. Any distance weapon will do, but bows and xbows are best. If the monster is unknown to you try to kill it from distance. If it is faster than you, assume it can kill you and get out of there ASAP.

Look at the monsters. Sometimes description tells you if you should run away even before you actually know what it does. Rods of Probing fill the monster memory for the monsters in line of sight, so once you find one, use it.

Speed is paramount. More the better until you reach about +30. If you get slowed (actual negative speed) you are in high risk of getting killed by something faster than you. In early game before you have any permanent speed items potions of speed basically guarantee escape (you get your every action doubled vs monsters). Save them for nasty encounters.

Get healing. Cure light wounds actually make difference in early game and are plentiful in dungeon. With lots of phase door and CLW you can heal while fighting.

Don't get surrounded. Pack/group monsters are dangerous in early game. If you see one spider/canine/orc expect to see more. Fight in closed spaces where you can back to safety if the current opponent turns out to be too nasty.

[Timo Pietilä]

That's a straw man if ever I saw one .

I can't speak for anyone else, but I dive(ish) because it makes the game more fun.

To me it makes game less fun and more boring. Examining dungeon is more fun. There is one aspect of diving though that you should learn even if you don't like diving: change levels sooner than later. Staying too long on same area creates tedium. Even doing opposite of diving is better than staying in same levels too long. It changes the danger level which stops you from getting mentally stuck in one way of playing.

[Derakon]

Try H-Troll warrior to learn the game.

...

Timo speaks wisely. All of his advice in this post is good. Don't be afraid of playing warriors; they don't have magic, sure, but there's plenty of complexity in the game, so they don't feel like second-class citizens. And they are significantly better at combat and survival than other classes (excepting priests and paladins in the late game, who can cast big healing spells).

If you're having trouble with making it to 1000', then your problem is that you haven't figured out the basic tactical game yet. Almost all of the monsters in the first 20 dungeon levels are primarily dangerous in melee, and your deaths will mostly come from getting overwhelmed by groups. Therefore, pick a race/class combination that's really good at melee and is better at surviving getting beat on. Half-Troll Warrior is it.