Speed Question (3.5)

[Arphod]

Is it true that there's very little benefit from having a speed greater than +30, by whatever means?

[krazyhades]

Yes. Speed has decreasing returns (and even a hard cap). +30 is Morgoth's speed, and if you don't match it, you risk any one of his double-moves being double manastorm. But going faster than M isn't really worth much, because your double moves against him are rare and much less crushing than his can be against you.

[MattB]

Is it true that there's very little benefit from having a speed greater than +30, by whatever means?

Going from spd 0 to spd +10 doubles your speed.
Going from spd +30 to spd +40 multiplies your speed by, if memory serves, about 1.4. After that, it's pretty negligible.
Speed x 1.4 is still handy, but that ring slot might be better used by a ring of damage or ring of power etc..

Edit: wrong! Sorry. See further post.

[Arphod]

Yes. Speed has decreasing returns (and even a hard cap). +30 is Morgoth's speed, and if you don't match it, you risk any one of his double-moves being double manastorm. But going faster than M isn't really worth much, because your double moves against him are rare and much less crushing than his can be against you.

Noted. Thank you.

But what about all the other monsters? Putting Morgy aside, is there much value in speed over +30?

[MattB]

Sorry, just checked.
Going from spd30 to spd40 gives you an additional 0.4 times base speed, so is in fact only about 10% faster.

Here's the table (as I understand it)...

spd times faster
0 normal
10 2x as fast
20 3x as fast
30 3.8x as fast
40 4.2x as fast
50 4.5x as fast
60 4.8x as fast
70 5.0x as fast

[Arphod]

Sorry, just checked.
Going from spd30 to spd40 gives you an additional 0.4 times base speed, so is in fact only about 10% faster.

Here's the table (as I understand it)...

spd times faster
0 normal
10 2x as fast
20 3x as fast
30 3.8x as fast
40 4.2x as fast
50 4.5x as fast
60 4.8x as fast
70 5.0x as fast

I am answered. Thanks for your time and input.

[MattB]

I am answered. Thanks for your time and input.

No worries. Any time!

[jford_2505@hotmail.com]

Is it possible for a slower monster to get a double turn?

I'm basing my theory on the information displayed in the following link:

http://www.thangorodrim.net/TANG/#time

Basically, it says that each player or monster has an energy score, and each *game* turn, a certain amount of points is added this score.

The number of points added is 10 + the player/monster's speed.

Once that energy reaches 100, they get a turn, and 100 points is subtracted from their energy.

For the sake of simplicity, let's ignore speeds above +28, and actions which reduce energy by a lesser amount.

Suppose I am fighting a very quick monster, say Tselakus, the Dreadlord (speed +20, or 30 energy points per turn).

I am just a little faster (speed +21, or 31 energy points per turn).

At a certain game turn, I have 70 energy, and Tselakus has 90 energy.

Next game turn, I have 101 energy points, so I take a turn, and have 1 energy left over.
Tselakus has 120 energy, so he takes his turn, and has 20 energy left over.

Next turn : Me: 32 energy, Tselakus: 50 energy
Turn after: Me: 63 energy, Tselakus: 80 energy
Turn after: Me: 94 energy, Tselakus: 110 energy

And Tselakus gets another turn before me.

If this is true, then it would have serious implications on whether it was safe for me to attack various monsters. E.g. I would need to maintain 880HP at all times in case Tselakus hit me with a double darkness storm...

[kaypy]

In order to avoid this 'unfair' double move, monsters with more energy will move before you. Thus it will go

@		G
70		90
101		120
		move
move		
1		20
32		50
63		80
94		110
		move
		10
125		40
move	
25		
56		70
..		..

[Timo Pietilä]

And Tselakus gets another turn before me..

It should not be possible. I have a vague memory about this being discussed about decade or two ago and it was fixed so that if you are faster than monster, monster never gets double-move against you.

Can't remember how it was fixed though, and my code-fu isn't strong enough to find it in current angband code.

[Timo Pietilä]

In order to avoid this 'unfair' double move, monsters with more energy will move before you. Thus it will go

Oh, that's what that

/* process monster with even more energy first */
            process_monsters(c, (byte)(p_ptr->energy + 1));

does. I was wondering what that does there. Rather cryptic line for someone not used to code.

[jford_2505@hotmail.com]

Oh right. That puts my mind at rest.