A Cheery Wave Hello and Some Newbie Questions

[WanderingBard2014]

Hello, everyone! The WanderingBard here. I just wanted to take this moment to introduce myself, and to tell you all some things I didn't have room for in my profile. Also, like most new players, I have some questions, and searching through the forums is a difficult task at best (to be fair, I did spend about three and a half hours on trying to get each of these questions answered, unsuccessfully, by back-reading in the forums, so I'm not being COMPLETELY lazy about this).

Let's see... I am new to Angband, but I am an old-time lover of the roguelike genre. I have at least dabbled in MANY roguelikes over the years, but to date, my current favorites are (in no particular order) ADOM, DoomRL, TOME (which I am actually told is an Angband variant), and Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. I'm really looking forward to the Angband experience, though!

I am also working on a (non-roguelike, sadly) RPG of my own, which I intend to release free to the community as soon as it is finished (which, between my job, my social life, my personal gaming time and the fact that I haven't yet mastered subsisting completely without sleep, is likely to be sometime between six months and seven years after my death). It's a 2D game made with RMVXAce, which is a really wonderful little program for a guy like me with no programming knowledge and big dreams.

So, on to the questions!

First off, is there any comprehensive explanation to be found anywhere of the uses of each stat? I can't seem to find one, and having access to that kind of information would really help me in prioritizing where I spend my stat points (after having relied on the RNG for my first trial run character... who never even lived to see the dungeon ((!!!)))... I decided that I would go the munchkin route for my next character).

Second, I have read a lot about the various races/classes. It seems to me that High Elves, with their massive bonuses nearly everywhere, and their ability to see invisible things, have a huge advantage over the other races... or is that just my perception? How much of Angband really is a numbers game? Do any of the other racial abilities weigh heavily enough to make them viable alternatives?

Last but not least, does anyone know where to find a list (if such even exists) of what depth(s) the various standarts in the game are to be found at? Considering that my second character (who I have been tinkering with as I wrote this post) just had all of his gear melted into slag by a series of acid traps in a corridor that went undetected until I face-planted in them, I should think that finding myself some artifacts ASAP would save me some frustration with all future characters.

[Timo Pietilä]

STR = damage, to_hit, blows, carrying capacity
INT = mage, rogue and ranger mana stat, devices (rods, staves, wands)
WIS = priest and paladin mana stat, saving throw
DEX = theft avoidance, blows, to_hit, AC.
CON = HP

It's your perception. Elves and half-elves are bad, but pretty much every other race is OK. Dwarves are my favorites. Dwarf priests to be exact, but dwarf warriors are very close to that.

Everywhere, deeper gets better ones. Don't worry about artifacts, good set of ego-items are more than enough to even win the game.

Just make sure you have 100% sure escape handy at all times. You will need one more than once in this game.

[Mondkalb]

Welcome to the forums of the *band addicted.

The ingame help has some considerable information about races, classes, and stats with some tables even.
It can also be read outside with wordpad or such: /lib/help/birth.txt

High Elves and Dunadan have very good stats, for a price. They gain experience more slowly than other races.
As for inbuilt abilities, see invisible with high elves is useful but easily covered later on. Resist poison is nice, because it may offer you more equipment choices in late game when other races have to cover it otherwise. FA is nice to have in early game.
Other abilities should also be considered, e. g. high stealth bonus or good saving throws or bonus or penalty on hit/shoot/throw.

The /lib/edit/artifact.txt file contains information about rhe generation level of artifacts but I think it wouldn't help you very much because a lot of randomness is involved in the artifact generation process.

[WanderingBard2014]

"It's your perception. Elves and half-elves are bad, but pretty much every other race is OK. Dwarves are my favorites. Dwarf priests to be exact, but dwarf warriors are very close to that."

Okay, so despite all those bonuses and nifty abilities, High Elves are actually a BAD race to play? What makes dwarven priests/warriors your favorites?

Thanks to everyone for the advice. Another question in a related vein... are there non-artifact, non-immunity ways to guard again inventory destruction? For instance, something along the line of protective cases, or maybe some salve that could be applied to ward off dangerous elements?

[Derakon]

If you ask me, the rough "tiers" of the different races are:

Half-Troll
--
Dwarf, Kobold, Hobbit
--
High-Elf, Dunadan
--
Elf, Half-Elf, Half-Orc
--
Human

High-Elves and Dunadan are innately strong in almost all stats, but are horribly boring to play since they level up so slowly. And the thing is, every class has at least one dump stat, so a race that is good in all stats (or even almost all) is wasting potential since some of that benefit won't be used. Picking a different race that is well-attuned to the class you want to play as (e.g. Half-Troll warrior, Hobbit or Kobold rogue, Dwarf priest) will get you a better character that also levels up a lot faster.

As for why Half-Trolls top the tier list, it's because the stats they're good in -- STR and CON -- are the stats that literally everyone wants to have. Nobody considers STR or CON to be a dump stat, since everyone wants as much HP and as high a carrying capacity as possible. And their innate regeneration goes a long way to making up for their bad spellcasting stats.

Inventory destruction can only be defended against by being immune to the element in question. Equipment damage from acid can only be guarded against by being immune or by the equipment in question being acidproof (e.g. Armor of Resist Acid is also impossible to damage by acid; armor made of mithril is similarly protected). There are no containers that you can use to protect your stuff, so figure out how to either avoid or quickly kill monsters that have elemental melee attacks. Hint: a ranged weapon works very well with Scrolls of Phase Door.

[Mondkalb]

High Elfs are not *that* bad, they make pretty good rangers (and rogues) and are easier to play for new players because of see inivisble; there are some annoying invisible monsters before you probably get see invisible and it's easier to handle them if you can see them from the beginning. But still, High Elfs level slowly.

Derakon, you forgot gnomes. ^^

And, btw, I believe Timo meant, immunities help against summoned monsters by Morgoth so that you won't use to on them necessarily.

[Derakon]

High Elfs are not *that* bad, they make pretty good rangers (and rogues) and are easier to play for new players because of see inivisble; there are some annoying invisible monsters before you probably get see invisible and it's easier to handle them if you can see them from the beginning. But still, High Elfs level slowly.

Yeah, High Elves are a classic newbie race because they make dealing with early invisible monsters trivial. But early invisible monsters are typically not a huge threat; blundering around randomly you'll likely kill them in melee, and there are Potions of True Sight now to give you temporary SI.

Derakon, you forgot gnomes. ^^

Oops, my mistake. They should probably be on the same tier as Dwarves et al.

And, btw, I believe Timo meant, immunities help against summoned monsters by Morgoth so that you won't use to on them necessarily.

Wrong thread, buddy. I've answered over there.

[Mondkalb]

Everything is so confusing around here ... ^^

[WanderingBard2014]

So, are humans considered the lowest merely for their generic "no bonuses of any kind, no penalties of any kind" set up? I started a human warrior a little earlier today who has been doing rather well... of course, I got lucky with my stat roller (decided to try another random character again). Can someone tell me what the whole "item rating messages" thing is about? For example, when I got to the first level with this guy, it told me that I felt like there might be something worthwhile there. I presume it meant the leather gloves I found, since those were rated "excellent" in my pack. But what do these things really mean, in the long run?

[Derakon]

Humans get no stat modifiers. As a result they're mediocre at everything: for any class, there is a race that would be better at the job (by matching the race's stat bonuses to the class's core stats). Additionally they get no intrinsic abilities, no skill bonuses, and no infravision. All that in exchange for leveling up 5-15% faster? By the time a human is level 30, most other races would be level 28-29, which is a pretty minor difference. And ultimately everyone's going to top out at level 50 (excepting maybe an impatient player who's rolling a high-elf or dunadan).

Really about the only thing they have going for them is that most races that have INT bonuses also have a worse hit die than the human's base d10, and most races that have a good hit die also have INT penalties. Considering that each additional side on your hit die is a difference of (on average) 25HP at level 50, though, it's hard to get too angry about that. CON is far more important.

[WanderingBard2014]

Wait... Fifty is the max level?! I was operating under the assumption that it was 99, like many other games. That makes the XP difference seem MUCH less beneficial, except of course as it relates to early-game survival. I may have to consider rolling something else when/if this character dies. I am thinking maybe a half-troll warrior next.

[Monkey Face]

Can someone tell me what the whole "item rating messages" thing is about? For example, when I got to the first level with this guy, it told me that I felt like there might be something worthwhile there. I presume it meant the leather gloves I found, since those were rated "excellent" in my pack. But what do these things really mean, in the long run?

The level feelings come in two flavors. The first you'll see as soon as you enter a level and describes the monsters initially on the level. They range from This seems like a quiet peaceful place to Omens of Death haunt this place. The feelings give an indication of how many out of depth monsters and how far out of depth they are.

The second flavor describes the treasures on the level. This ranges from Naught but Cobwebs to Superb Treasures. It is based on both how out of depth the treasures are along with bonuses for high quality items.

Frequently (but not always) the two are somewhat linked. That way high reward comes with high risk. Obviously, if you get Omens of Death along with Naught but cobwebs you probably don't want to hang around that long while if you get a quiet peaceful place with Superb Treasures you want to check the place out.

I'm pretty sure that a fair number of people ignore the level feelings and there is a birth option to turn them off.

[Timo Pietilä]

Okay, so despite all those bonuses and nifty abilities, High Elves are actually a BAD race to play?

Elves. Not high-elves.

Half-elf and elf take penalty to CON which makes them pretty much useless races.

I don't agree with Derakon with his list putting humans last. Elves are way worse, having smaller hit die and con penalty they are pretty much useless race. Half-elves are nearly as useless, but not quite.

Humans get levels insanely fast, and are not especially bad at anything, just not great at anything either.

[WanderingBard2014]

Ok, some new questions now that I have played for a while. Is 3.5 bugged to have scrolls of ID NEVER appear in either the Black Market or the Scroll/Potion shop? I have played multiple characters now, and on not a single visit to either store on any character have I seen even one for sale... It makes me leery of putting on any equipment I find that is listed as "magical", or making use of magic items, when I don't know what they do. Any suggestions?

Also... Smeagol. Is there any way to actually defeat him as a mage? The only spell that I have access to that even impacts him is Spear of Light, and that's minimally. He keeps showing up, robbing me blind, then teleporting away before I can even shave off 10% of his HP, then he heals up before I ever find him again. I eventually rage-quit that character when I realized he had successfully filched over 6k leaving me completely broke, and still having no way to handle him, but I WOULD like to try a mage again at some point, and would like not to be completely shafted again when I do, so any advice is appreciated.

[Derakon]

The Alchemist should stock Scrolls of Identify fairly regularly; you must just be getting unlucky. Realize that the stores restock every 1000 normal-speed turns (as long as you're in the dungeon at the time the restock triggers). This restock isn't a complete refresh; instead the stores sell off some stock and then buy replacements.

As for Smeagol, just avoid him. You can kill him later, when you have enough SP to wear down his massive HP pool. Smeagol is here to teach you the lesson that you should not expect to fight every unique you meet as soon as you meet them. Many of them are much too dangerous at that point; Smeagol is instead borderline unkillable. Fortunately he also can't walk a remotely straight line, so it's fairly easy to stay away from him. Worst case, just leave the level.

Finally, mages are hard to play. Their early game is miserable, and you really need to know what you're doing and what the monsters can do before you should expect to make serious progress with one. If you want to play a caster, consider playing a Priest; once you make it to level 9, the spell Orb of Draining will carry them through much of the game. Until then, a Mace and the spell Bless should suffice to melee the weaker enemies in the dungeon.