Stupid Angband Questions

[Drokk]

Thanks for the reply, I'll post a character dump.

Its my first time pushing into the actual midgame, so Nexus is new to me.

Quicker dumb question:

Is plasma an extension of fire damage? Or is it something different entirely?

Edit:
Here's a link to my char dump!

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=21577

[Derakon]

Plasma is a special element, which is unresistable; the only things you can do to take less plasma damage are to avoid being attacked and to weaken enemies that attack with it (breath damage scales with the current HP of the user). In practice it acts like a combination of electricity and sound, in that it destroys things that are vulnerable to electricity, and stuns you. However, resistance to electricity and sound do not protect you from plasma.

Similarly there's water, ice, mana, gravity, and a few other elements that I'm forgetting right now. Mana has a big damage cap and no side-effects, the others (including plasma) have fairly low damage caps but various nasty side effects. Watch out for gravity in particular.

Regarding your dump:
* Personally I would carry more Phase Door scrolls. Generally I try to enter the dungeon with 15 Phase Door and 5 Word of Recall. Phase Door + a good ranged weapon can make a lot of fights a lot safer.
* Why are you carrying a Summon Undead scroll?
* The shots in your quiver are just so much dead weight; get rid of them. There's a small chance you'll find a sling that makes good shots worth using, but it's not a big enough chance to stockpile non-ego ammo for.
* You should probably keep the Mushroom of Vigor in your home, so it can't get destroyed or accidentally eaten.
* You should be stockpiling Potions of Speed at home as well; you'll want them for the final fights. It's worth carrying 1 or 2 in inventory for use during normal play though, until you find a re-usable source of temporary speed.
* In my experience, flasks of oil and lanterns are both common enough that I don't need to carry spare oil in my inventory. Just top off when I find them in the dungeon -- and note that you can refill your lantern using another lantern.
* Your boots are redundant with your amulet -- sources of free action do not stack in Vanilla. Not that you really have better boots right now.
* If you didn't have that Telepathy hat, I'd tell you to carry Staves of Detect Evil. However, pretty much all evil enemies worth detecting are also brain-having -- all you really miss out on are stuff like skeletons and zombies.

On the whole, though, that looks pretty solid. You have a lot of areas you can improve, but none of them that I'd really expect you to have done by this point in the game.

[Drokk]

Thanks so much for the thorough tips! I really appreciate you taking the time.

Since I'm on a roll, here's another stupid question:

I hear speed is extremely important, and from a general rougelike knowledge standpoint I can understand why, but could I get a quick breakdown as to why?
I just found a +9 ring of speed, and swapped it out for my damage ring. Want to know if I made the right choice there. I feel like its an offensive defensive tradeoff, but I want to avoid getting double hit by beefier monsters.

The strength ring I mostly have to sustain strength, as my unfamiliarity with monsters leads me to getting drained frequently.

[Sideways]

Thanks so much for the thorough tips! I really appreciate you taking the time.

Since I'm on a roll, here's another stupid question:

I hear speed is extremely important, and from a general rougelike knowledge standpoint I can understand why, but could I get a quick breakdown as to why?
I just found a +9 ring of speed, and swapped it out for my damage ring. Want to know if I made the right choice there. I feel like its an offensive defensive tradeoff, but I want to avoid getting double hit by beefier monsters.

The strength ring I mostly have to sustain strength, as my unfamiliarity with monsters leads me to getting drained frequently.

A character with +10 speed does everything twice as fast as a character wtih +0 speed... so he does the same effective melee damage with 150 dam/round as the slower character would with 300 dam/round (because he gets twice as many rounds) but he's also effectively better at everything that isn't melee.

So speed is a really big thing, but only up to a point. +20 unhasted is usually "enough" - +30 hasted is enough not to get double-moved by any monster in the game, and speed is into diminishing returns territory by then anyway. Up to +26 it's 0.1x per point (so +26 is 1+2.6x = 3.6x speed), after that it gets a bit weird, but +26 hasted is all you really need anyway when you're not fighting Morgoth. (+26 hasted will do against Morgoth too at a pinch, but you might get insta-killed if you're unlucky with a double-move.)

So unless you already had heaps of speed without the +9 ring you almost certainly made the right choice.

[Philip]

First things first - Ring of Speed at dlvl 40 is very lucky, and you should definitely wear that ring. So long as you're getting extra blows from it, the ring of strength probably isn't much worse than the ring of damage anyway, so if it keeps you safer from STR drain that's worth it.

On a warrior I am fond of +30 unhasted. With bad saving throw and brain smash, and warriors being bad at getting reliably hasted, I find it convenient not to have to worry about it. The diminishing returns do get serious after a while, though.

The first reason speed is so important is that many monsters (including Sauron and Morgoth) have attacks capable of dealing over half your health in damage in one turn. If they get two consecutive turns on you, that means there's a chance you die. And any event where there is a chance you die, no matter how small, if it occurs enough times over a game, you will die. So you need to be faster than they are, if you're going to be fighting them.
The second reason is what Sideways mentioned. Multipliers that apply at the end of a calculation are extremely powerful.

[Drokk]

Thanks again for the thorough responses.

Another stupid question!

When I see 4.6 blows, does that .6 actually matter? Like I'd have four blows one turn, and then five the next? Or do only the whole values actually reflect in the games attacks?

I notice it effects damage values, but I never quite see You attack monster (x5). Is it broken out into a separate 'bonus' hit after my main attack and I've just missed it?

[Derakon]

Thanks again for the thorough responses.

Another stupid question!

When I see 4.6 blows, does that .6 actually matter? Like I'd have four blows one turn, and then five the next? Or do only the whole values actually reflect in the games attacks?

I notice it effects damage values, but I never quite see You attack monster (x5). Is it broken out into a separate 'bonus' hit after my main attack and I've just missed it?

The fractional blow means you take slightly less than a full turn. 4.6 blows means you get 4 blows in 92% of a full turn (I think I did that math right). So no, you'll never get five attacks out of one press of the button, but you're still getting on average faster attacks than you would at 4.0 blows/round.

[Drokk]

Makes sense! Thanks again.

That character got instagibbed by the mouth of Sauron (got some really cool gear before death, check out the dump on ladder). Come hither right into a storm of darkness, ended up with -140 hp. Ouch.

Learned so much though, I totally got greedy and underestimated how deadly an OOD unique could be.

On to the next one.

[Pete Mack]

Yes, OOD uniques are very deadly, and Mouth of Sauron is just bad news even at native depth. (Most deep unique s are, until you reach endgame strength.) There are a few you can kill easily (Dragluin for example), but mostly not a chance. Also stay away from Greater Balrogs and certain deep undead, which are worse than most uniques.

[Drokk]

I'll keep that in mind! Until I get that monster knowledge, my process is currently:

Attack it
See how bad it hits you back
Teleport away and swear to never approach it again

I guess that won't really work when things can one hit me.

Currently trying to learn the magic system, so I'm splatting some dwarf paladins. Its tough in the beginning, especially before you get sustain wisdom.
Really have to respect monsters a lot more when you only have 2.0 blows. I found Elvagil, but with only one swing it really didn't help me at all. In fact, the confidence I gained from finding it probably got me killed!

To segway into yet another two dumb questions:

Is there a way to get complete monster attack info without being hit once first?

How can I make a caster survivable before I get sustain for wisdom? Early game weakness is new considering my propensity to play warriors, and that drain HURTS. I'm assuming I'm going to have to use the bigger hit dice weapons (maces, hammers, ect) because I'll have pretty much one blow across the board?

I've been so impressed with how helpful you guys have been today. Thanks again. I'll continue to barrage you with stupid questions, kind of set on making this RL my next ascension.

[Carnivean]

I'll keep that in mind! Until I get that monster knowledge, my process is currently:

Attack it
See how bad it hits you back
Teleport away and swear to never approach it again

I guess that won't really work when things can one hit me.

This is the fun way to learn and die. The way to win is to only attack things you know you can beat without burning a disproportionate amount of resources or creating a later dangerous situation.

To segway into yet another two dumb questions:

Pedantry note: a Segway is an auto-balancing transport device, a segue is a conversational transition.

Is there a way to get complete monster attack info without being hit once first?

In game you can get this information by using Probing is either spell or device form, ie Rod of Probing. If you die and restart the same character you inherit all previously known information.

How can I make a caster survivable before I get sustain for wisdom?

For all types of caster it's pretty much choose your targets and control your circumstances. You will be weak early.

[Estie]

You can get complete monster knowledge by looking at the file monster.txt in /lib/gamedata.

Sustain <stat> is of low concern. Stat draining can be avoided for the most part by not letting draining monsters melee you. The occasional drain might happen, but you should disengage and retreat rather than keep fighting and lose a relevent amount of <important stat>.

Paladin in particular does not rely on spells early on. Play him like a weak warrior if need be.

Typically, paladins end up wearing a wisdom amulet eventually which solves that issue.

[Grotug]

Pedantry note: a Segway is an auto-balancing transport device, a segue is a conversational transition.

How did I never learn this word? I guess I never used it in writing. I always thought it was "segway" and I never remember ever being told otherwise; and I've always thought the word was "segway" long before motorized scooters trademarked it. And yet, only now am I learning that the word is 'segue'. What a strange feeling! https://www.merriam-webster.com/word...monly-confused

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Aww, don't look up monster history; that's cheating! You got to earn your knowledge through many unhappy deaths.

Another reason I like playing half-troll warior is that stat drain hardly ever matters since you can't be drained of your most important stat and you gain levels so quckly being that you are a monste-crushing meachine with very low experience penalty. I used to play High-Elf Paladin when I started playing Angband for the native See Invisible and healing, but didn't have a proper appreciation of how devastating the slow experience gain is. I used to collect mushrooms of vigor to compensate.

[Moving Pictures]

Yes, OOD uniques are very deadly, and Mouth of Sauron is just bad news even at native depth. (Most deep unique s are, until you reach endgame strength.) There are a few you can kill easily (Dragluin for example), but mostly not a chance. Also stay away from Greater Balrogs and certain deep undead, which are worse than most uniques.

i am slowly and painfully learning the lesson that one does not have to kill all the uniques.

[Pete Mack]

Once you get past dl 40, you can assume that a significant fraction of monsters you meet you will n9t be able to kill. The obvious ones are AMHD, drolem, Ethereal Drake(!), Death Drake, Great Crystal Drake, Smaug and friends if you don't have double resistance and/or suitable ego ammo. Depending on your character, you may be able to kill them, but you will burn through a ton of consumables. On the other hand, demons native to those depths are great targets, until the Balrogs, who are often more effort than they are worth. After this, the number of killable at-deoth monsters goes down fast, until you catch up with the power curve through some combination of
* stats
* double resistance (this is huge)
* speed
* damage
* 0-fail
To avoid these monsters, use some combination of
ESP, detection, TO, Light Rods, Mapping, Stealth, running away, and not using teleportation unless you really don't have a choice.