that was kind of an interesting game...

[Grotug]

Found a staff of *destruction* on DL8 and got killed by a Dracolich on DL11. The DL11 level had been very easy and then I stumbled upon a special permanent room and suddenly was attacked by a Dracolich and all too quickly learned why the level had an omens of death feeling.

[bio_hazard]

Found a staff of *destruction* on DL8 and got killed by a Dracolich on DL11. The DL11 level had been very easy and then I stumbled upon a special permanent room and suddenly was attacked by a Dracolich and all too quickly learned why the level had an omens of death feeling.

Congrats on finding a vault! I've been playing a bit of 3.4.1 recently and haven't found much of anything unusual, especially above 1000'

As you've now learned, there can be seriously out-of-depth monsters in those. There can also be some OOD items, so it can be worth it to explore if you've got some means of dealing with things you can't kill in combat. Wands of Teleport Other are one of the best, although your staff would have worked as well.

[buzzkill]

Found a staff of *destruction* on DL8 and got killed by a Dracolich on DL11. The DL11 level had been very easy and then I stumbled upon a special permanent room and suddenly was attacked by a Dracolich and all too quickly learned why the level had an omens of death feeling.

This is super awesome. I can't remember anything so unusual ever happening to me. I presume you were unable to use the staff, or did everything just happen too quickly. It would have been very cool to have survived.

[Estie]

Being able to open the vault on DL 11 is already a feat. My characters normally couldnt do that, even if equipped with *destruction* to clear the ood monsters.

[Grotug]

I actually sold the staff of destruction for over 4000 gold. I don't like *destruction* since it destroys items, too--but, yeah, I would have happily used it in that scenario, but I have a terribly all or nothing attitude that does not bode me well in this game. Not sure I would have had time to deal with the dracolich tho, I was kinda low on health when I ran into him. It all did happen very quickly. I was trying to evade an acid dragonfly and some other minor spellcaster (maybe a gnome mage). My guard was down, even though I saw all the traps in the vault. Suddenly I'm up against a capital D and I'm like.. what the... and he did his business and as I'm going through the [more]s I kinda knew I was done. I shoulda been expecting an out of depth monster at that point. It was the first time I had encountered an omens of death or similar bad level feeling below like dl40 or dl50.

[Raxmei]

44 levels out of depth. Impressive, even for a vault. Linearly that's like finding a Black Reaver on level 30.

[fizzix]

I had thought 44 levels was impossible. I thought the were capped at 40 levels out of depth.

Regardless. I actually don't think finding a dracolich on dlevel 11 is interesting, vault or not. A mature dragon? sure. But a dracolich? no way.

[Thraalbee]

I had thought ... [cut] ... Regardless. I actually don't think finding a dracolich on dlevel 11 is interesting, vault or not. A mature dragon? sure. But a dracolich? no way.

Sure, certain death sucks, but sometimes you will find a clever way to trick death. Or at least have fun trying, even if failing eventually. But mainly this extreme happens so rarely that it, in my opinion, is justified alone by the fact that just knowing it *could* happen adds to the exitment of the game.

[MattB]

I actually don't think finding a dracolich on dlevel 11 is interesting, vault or not. A mature dragon? sure. But a dracolich? no way.

I actually disagree with you there. A creature that OOD has to be in a vault, and the level has to be 'omens of death'. If I choose to crack open a vault on an early 'omens' level (and believe me I would), then I deserve everything I get!

Apart from any thing else, it's detectable by all but a warrior (and even then with a staff of detect evil). It's not like it was a drolem... (but even then my first point would apply).

Greed should kill (and it usually kills me).

[fizzix]

I actually disagree with you there. A creature that OOD has to be in a vault, and the level has to be 'omens of death'. If I choose to crack open a vault on an early 'omens' level (and believe me I would), then I deserve everything I get!

Apart from any thing else, it's detectable by all but a warrior (and even then with a staff of detect evil). It's not like it was a drolem... (but even then my first point would apply).

Greed should kill (and it usually kills me).

Having a dracolich there means that if you can't detect it and have no means of teleport other/self, you die.

If you can detect it, there's no choice in the matter. There's no "hmm maybe I can take this moment" unless, of course, you don't know what a dracolich is. A mature dragon, nearly every dlevel 11 character will not be able to handle, it's pretty much going to be death. But at least someone might be willing to try. There's a calculation there (albeit, one I'll probably never take myself.)

Part of this comes because I think a dracolich is actually a level 80 monster, not a level 55 one, but people don't agree with me on that either.

[Derakon]

Man, sometimes the dungeon should just up and kill you. Not often! But sometimes. It helps keep things feeling lethal. IMO any monster (or item!) should theoretically be able to show up anywhere, albeit at vanishingly low odds for the really extreme cases.

Sure, sometimes this means you get into a "There is literally nothing I can do to survive" kind of situation. But you'll have a story to tell!

[Grotug]

I wasn't upset or surprised I died. Any time you are ambling about in an omens of death level, you should expect death. I actually thought the level feeling was wrong and that there really was nothing to fear, because I had been on the level awhile and hadn't encountered anything out of the ordinary and was having a relatively easy time of it. One thing this game never ceases to be able to do is surprise me. No matter how many times "okay, really, I'm safe" turns out to be the greatest false belief to hold, I continue time after time to feel safe when I shouldn't. And of course times when I'm being extra cautious... nothing happens.

[Timo Pietilä]

I had thought 44 levels was impossible. I thought the were capped at 40 levels out of depth

Vault floor with "up to 40 out of depth" create monster like if it is 40 level deeper than usual, but then it can get usual OoD checks.

[Timo Pietilä]

No matter how many times "okay, really, I'm safe" turns out to be the greatest false belief to hold, I continue time after time to feel safe when I shouldn't.

Here is one of those "I'm safe situations":

#################
................#
###############.#
DsGGLLGsGVWWDL#.#
DDssLLGW.sWGLL#.#
VVsLGWWs.WGGL.L.####
.VLGDDLLLVVG..G....#
..VDD.VLLGGssLLL##@# <-me running upward
..LLDGGDDLV...LL##.#
..L.D..DD.LVGGG###.#
###.##.LL#########.#
  ##..##G   L    #.#
   ####   V  G   #.#
                 #.#

[brownbear]

Man, sometimes the dungeon should just up and kill you. Not often! But sometimes. It helps keep things feeling lethal. IMO any monster (or item!) should theoretically be able to show up anywhere, albeit at vanishingly low odds for the really extreme cases.

Sure, sometimes this means you get into a "There is literally nothing I can do to survive" kind of situation. But you'll have a story to tell!

I agree.

I think there needs to be more of finding Ringil early, and still dying to an undetected breather.

I want more sad stories !