to ironman or not to ironman

[MattB]

Seriously though, why do we have an item in the game for which no-one can find a non-scummy use for?

[fizzix]

Seriously though, why do we have an item in the game for which no-one can find a non-scummy use for?

It's supposed to be a "bad effect" wand, like haste monster or heal monster.

[DaviddesJ]

You could clone weak monsters to surround yourself with them and limit how much room is available for stronger enemies. I'm not sure I'd do that often, but you can at least imagine it as a strategy.

That said, there's nothing wrong with having "scummy" game options, like cloning. Let people do it if they want or don't if they don't want. More playstyles = more fun for everyone.

[MattB]

You could clone weak monsters to surround yourself with them and limit how much room is available for stronger enemies. I'm not sure I'd do that often, but you can at least imagine it as a strategy.

Good thinking! I suppose if I happened to be standing on a wand of clone in an enclosed room with Balrogs and imps, I might even consider doing that. Maybe not Balrogs, the imps wouldn't last long...

That said, there's nothing wrong with having "scummy" game options, like cloning. Let people do it if they want or don't if they don't want. More playstyles = more fun for everyone.

Hum, I suppose so.
Personally I think there are quite enough monsters in the dungeon without making more of the buggers.

[DaviddesJ]

I have never wanted to clone any monsters, if I really want to fight more enemies without going deeper it's more interesting to just recall and generate a new level at the same depth. It does seem that cloning and ironman are somewhat at odds in spirit.

[Derakon]

If I recall correctly, cloning creates a hasted, fully-healed clone, so it's really not that useful for scumming. Quylthulg farming is more helpful. You have less control over what exactly gets summoned, but the summons are at normal speed.

Neither is needed for normal play, though. I could see you needing to do them if you powerdive in an ironman game (going for a super-low turncount), but that's about it.

Alter Reality is similarly problematic for ironman games; fortunately only priests get access to it.

[DaviddesJ]

If I recall correctly, cloning creates a hasted, fully-healed clone, so it's really not that useful for scumming.

I think there are plenty of enemies with good drops that are so easy to fight (with appropriate resistances and preparation) that it makes no difference at all if they are hasted.