to ironman or not to ironman

[quarague]

I just started a new dwarf priest, first time messed around with the options and activated 'no sale' and 'randarts'. No sale means you get zero starting equipment and a little more cash to buy what you want. Not having much experience with buying my own starting equipemt, I forgot to buy a WoR, which I only noticed when I was at around 500' feet. The temple only had the beginner prayer book so I was struggling for a while. But by now I found spell books 2 and 3 (finally can cast Orb of Draining, makes life so much easier), a staff of id, and the first two rand arts, char is level 20 now.
I also found a WoR, and so now I am debating, should I ditch it and continue in the dungeon or just recall and play a regular game with a tough start due to my stupidity?
And tips and opinions welcome.

[Scraper]

No sale is an awesome option. It was suggested to me by Timo iirc a few weeks ago. It gives increased money drops which means you dont have to cart ego weapons back to town to make enough coin to keep your consumables at a managable level. It helps greatly with inventory space which is a meta-game untoitself. So as far as that goes, that wasn't a bad choice.

As far as your ironman choice is concerned, I have enough trouble winning the game playing standard, so I will abstain from voting.

Best of luck in your game.

[fizzix]

Ironman is a fun challenge and it's definitely worth giving it a go. It will at least change some of your perception of the game and let you feel that you can handle stuff that you previously didn't think was possible.

[AnonymousHero]

You'll certainly learn to not get too attached to your characters... which is actually a great recipe for winning (by learning to not fall into the "very careful, but takes 1% chances too often" trap), but personally I like to be kind of attached to my characters and still win .

To each their own, and Ironman is definitely something one should try at least once in one's *banding career.

[DaviddesJ]

What I don't understand about Ironman is how people avoid the enemies they just really aren't ready to fight. Sometimes you can teleport them away, but sometimes they just keep coming back. Do you just give up and descend in those cases, and hope it doesn't happen too often and force you deeper than you want to go?

I can see how farming enemies can compensate for a lot of town trips, but I don't quite see how people handle the avoidance issue.

[Derakon]

What I don't understand about Ironman is how people avoid the enemies they just really aren't ready to fight. Sometimes you can teleport them away, but sometimes they just keep coming back. Do you just give up and descend in those cases, and hope it doesn't happen too often and force you deeper than you want to go?

Pretty much, sometimes you just have to flee the level. Fortunately there's enough levels in the game that you can afford to do this a decent number of times without screwing yourself.

If you want to try a gentler form of ironman, in 3.5 the forced-descent aspect of ironman (can't replay any levels) and the can't-access-the-town aspect have been split into separate options. So you can set up a game where you only have 100 dungeon levels available to you, but you can recall back to town, access the home, etc. One of the recent competitions played in this mode. When you recall back to the dungeon, you move to the next lower level; recalling out of the dungeon is disabled on levels 99 and 100 until Sauron and Morgoth are dead, respectively.

[DaviddesJ]

If you want to try a gentler form of ironman, in 3.5 the forced-descent aspect of ironman (can't replay any levels) and the can't-access-the-town aspect have been split into separate options. So you can set up a game where you only have 100 dungeon levels available to you, but you can recall back to town, access the home, etc. One of the recent competitions played in this mode. When you recall back to the dungeon, you move to the next lower level; recalling out of the dungeon is disabled on levels 99 and 100 until Sauron and Morgoth are dead, respectively.

Yes, I read about this, but given the ability to camp on levels indefinitely, to clone, and to stock lots of consumables, this seems much closer to "normal" than to "ironman" in difficulty. It's true that you might still have to flee a level and go deeper, but it should happen much less often since you aren't so concerned about conserving consumables. At least, that's my theorycrafting without actually trying it.

[Derakon]

I think if you're willing to camp out on a level and abuse cloning (or quylthulg scumming) then honestly you deserve what you get. The game is winnable without resorting to such tactics.

I'm not entirely clear on why access to the home means you're less worried about conserving consumables, anyway. It's not like the amount of available consumables is any different just because you can return to town; relatively few potions and scrolls are bought in the Black Market in my experience, and past the early game you rarely need to buy C*W potions.

[quarague]

I guess the ironman I was thinking of is a rather mild version, only forbidding the use of the town but without the forced decent. That still gives me the option of leaving a level as often as I feel like (and I feel like doing this a lot ;-) but I would loose the option of buying stuff in town (mostly CCWs and id-staffs) and the extra inventory in the house. Seems like a reasonable choice for someone who has won the game only once.

[Estie]

What I don't understand about Ironman is how people avoid the enemies they just really aren't ready to fight. Sometimes you can teleport them away, but sometimes they just keep coming back. Do you just give up and descend in those cases, and hope it doesn't happen too often and force you deeper than you want to go?

I can see how farming enemies can compensate for a lot of town trips, but I don't quite see how people handle the avoidance issue.

There are many occasions where some nasty unavoidable monsters force leaving a level early, but youd be surprised at what you can actually kill with careful play. Most orc bosses are easy with a speed potion, but even without one, they are usually very killable if approached carefully. Clearing a suitable area for the fight, isolating the boss and luring him to the prepared area then using fight and phase tactics can work. Thats nothing I would bother with in a normal game, hell no, but in ironman every dead unique is worth something.

There are particulary unpleasant uniques, like Adunaphel, that you can prepare against even in ironman. Having a weapon with undead bonus damage or a wand of fireball handy when entering her depths can enable an early kill.

An ood swarm of dreads, if detected early, can often be dealt with by very careful approach, making sure only 1 is activated at a time. The first fights might be hard and use up consumables, but chances are that their drops are helpful and enable killing the whole group, leaving you stronger than before.

[MattB]

I think if you're willing to camp out on a level and abuse cloning (or quylthulg scumming) then honestly you deserve what you get.

How do you not abuse cloning?

(I.e. what use does it have that isn't abuseful?)

[Derakon]

Uh, I guess you could throw the wands at monsters to wake them up?

[quarague]

I guess if you use an unknown wand, clone a monster and then run away screaming it doesn't count as abuse either ;-)

[DaviddesJ]

I'm not entirely clear on why access to the home means you're less worried about conserving consumables, anyway. It's not like the amount of available consumables is any different just because you can return to town; relatively few potions and scrolls are bought in the Black Market in my experience, and past the early game you rarely need to buy C*W potions.

Well, the town does give you infinite scrolls of recharging, which is convenient. But mostly it just makes it easier to hoard a reserve. You can pile up surplus items when you find them and then burn them up when you need them. Using your last X in a fight is no big deal if you've got more stashed in your home; it's more annoying if you know you're never going to have any more until you find some. But you're probably right that it's not that big a difference once you get used to a slightly different style of play.

[MattB]

I guess if you use an unknown wand, clone a monster and then run away screaming it doesn't count as abuse either ;-)

OK, I've been thinking about it all afternoon and I think I've come up with a use for a wand of clone monster that might not be abuse.

How about if you're standing in front of a vault that you can't get into. You could clone an umber hulk a dozen times, slap them silly and set them running!

Of course then you'd need a low damage weapon to send them back towards the vault when they start running back towards you. I think a whip would be fitting - 'Keep them umbers movin' - RAWHIDE!'.

Ideally I'd like immfire and a fire hound nearby to act as a sheepdog.

I really should do some work.

Sod it, Arya IV the High Elf Ranger is off to find a vault, a wand of clone monster, an umber hulk and a fire hound. Oh, and Firestar. Hmm, maybe a source of pConf might be sensible too.