What happened to artifacts?

[Ingwe Ingweron]

It's been several years since I played Angband, but I came back to it a few days ago. After several quick deaths, I remembered a little bit of how to play, helped by reading some of the forum threads. I've managed to get a High-Elf Mage to CLVL 25 on DLVL 29. The thing that has me most puzzled though, is what happened to the artifacts? I haven't seen a single one in all this time, not even the Phial of Galadriel. I checked the "birth options" and they are set to "no" for randomizing artifacts and "no" to using the previous set of randarts. The ironman setting is also set to "no". Is it a problem in these settings, or am I just unlucky?

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Never mind--I just went down to DLVL30 and a mind flayer dropped Nimthanc. I guess I just have been unlucky, or the rarity of artifacts has been increased.

[Derakon]

I do think that artifacts are less common than they used to be. Certainly the Phial is a lot less common; back in the old days I'd think something was wrong if I didn't have it by 500'. These days it can take a lot longer to show up, which is I think in part because there's now a bunch of ego torches and lanterns that would never realistically be used if the Phial was a practically-guaranteed item.

I don't really have a feel for the other artifacts' rarities, but it could well be that they're less common now.

Hm, thought: when was "turns" added to the character dump? And how about the artifacts-found log? We can calculate the artifacts:turns ratio for versions of Vanilla that we can't run stats for. That would at least give us some idea of overall artifact frequency.

But in general it does seem like players think the current version is too stingy, so we may want to turn the flow of nice gear up a bit.

[Oramin]

Part of it depends on your play style. I clear and repeat levels and I usually find at least a half dozen artifacts by the time I hit level 20 or so. OTOH, my H-T Warrior didn't find any artifacts until L21 (and then found Elvagil and Anduril on the same level).

[Oramin]

I should also note that while the former starter artifacts do seem to be far less common now, the top quality items seem to drop more frequently. Except for my last winner, I've found all three Elven Rings with each of my previous winners in 3.3.2. Not to mention finding Ringil a couple of times, Aule, Eonwe, and Bladeturner - and, of course, The One Ring.

Survive long enough and you'll get good toys.

[Estie]

The Phial is definitely too deep. I often find the Arkenstone before the Phial.
While there is a wide window for ego lights, there is now no window for the Phial at all - its ego -> one of the other artifact lights more often than not. Plus, the lantern of true sight is better than the Phial for most characters.

About the overall decreased quality of items, I am not sure. An enchanted dagger is not guaranteed early on, which is good. However, there is this long period of time in the beginning for each character where nothing interesting happens. The flavoured items found will be junk flavours to be squelched; the unflavoured weapon/armors will be +0 or of low value enchantment and therefore worthless.
Going deep fast is the thing to do obviously, but not too fast; I want to get rid of the early flavours while in safety of shallowness; this makes the dangerous depth much more profitable when I arrive. However, it also creates a period of chores at the start before the real game begins.

Maybe removing some of the early flavours of dubious value would be a good idea, or at least spreading them out a bit. For example, all bad amulets - teleportation, searching, resist acid/electricity, inertia - appear very early. The good ones vary - regen and wisdom are early, trickery is late. Why not put some of the bad ones deeper, somewhere between wisdom and trickery ?

[Timo Pietilä]

But in general it does seem like players think the current version is too stingy, so we may want to turn the flow of nice gear up a bit.

I think monster drops have been tuned down a bit too much. There used to be ordinary monsters with DROP_GOOD flags, but now those are exclusively unique stuff. In particular I miss Archon explosion loots (somehow current whatwasitcalled archon-equal seems weaker too).

2.9.3 = 96 DROP_GOOD, 3.4.0 = 88 DROP_GOOD, all uniques and unique count = 99 so not even all uniques drop good items. I think monsters like Black Reaver, Dracolich, top demons (Pit Fiend, Greater Balrog) should still have DROP_GOOD flags. Also few weaker anomalies like Enchantress should still have DROP_GOOD.

BTW, how is drop chance being calculated now? For example

Fundin Bluecloak
F: DROP_4 | DROP_GOOD | ONLY_ITEM

Itangast the Fire Drake
F: DROP_GOOD | ONLY_ITEM


Many normal monsters have something like


F: DROP_40

[Mondkalb]

It occurred to me too that artifacts in shallow levels are rarer (as are certain ego items like westernesse weapons or elvish armor).

[Timo Pietilä]

It occurred to me too that artifacts in shallow levels are rarer (as are certain ego items like westernesse weapons or elvish armor).

I have had a feeling that lesser vaults, especially the better ones like diagonal vaults are also rather rare, almost as rare as greater vaults. I get a lot of pits (which I usually ignore because denizens have poor drops), but only a few lesser vaults even at deeper levels.

Greater vaults are rather common OTOH at 90+ dlvls.

[Mondkalb]

The -thanc daggers are quite rare also, I think. In the last few games I found merely one of them and only far too late. They used to be rather common.

DSM seem to be more common than they were. Not a bad thiing, an early DSM is nice, but I'd prefer more elven armor or shields. My last randart game even had an DSM artifact armor.

[PowerWyrm]

Last time I played 3.4 I had absolutely no problem finding artifacts...

The only thing I can think of here is that you're playing with preserve=off and you cannot find artifacts because they're lost.

[Timo Pietilä]

Last time I played 3.4 I had absolutely no problem finding artifacts...

They are definitely more rare very early, but I have a feeling that pretty much everything is more rare early than it used to be, even monsters and ordinary rooms.

[Mondkalb]

That's what I said recently in the other thread - everything is drab and dreary until you get to 2000' at least.

Though, I had two greater vaults on shallow depths recently, but they were completely ood and even if I had been able to get in, I wouldn't have dared.

[academic.sam]

I'll also echo this sentiment. Currently on my thrid mage (which BTW in CL43/ DL78 thankyouverymuch) and all three didn't find any (may be one) before DL30. Found Phial at dl42 and by the time, I've found a lantern of brightness (love that). Phial is still sitting at home.

Artifacts are certainly rare based on my sample of three. More than that, by the time I found some of the medium artifacts, I also found a few high level ones and the low/medium ones really lost their appeal. While I don't mind the rarity, I do think it could use a bit of balancing. Finding even a low level artifact early on really keeps you playing.

[Magnate]

Clearly it's time for some stats runs on 3.4. For the first time we can get a precise comparison with 3.3. Watch this space.