A Few Questions/Observations From an Old Player

[Derakon]

Certainly there is a field of theoretical computer science that intersects with abstract mathematics. Some of my best friends are professors in those fields. But it's still the case that the experience and sensibility of a math student and a computer science student tend to be quite different.

This is what I was getting at -- a computer science degree is going to have a fair amount of abstracted mathematics in it. Granted that computer engineering (i.e. what most CS grads do for a day job) is not so mathy most of the time, but at least for my CS degree I got a lot of math including a decent amount of abstract stuff. Not as much as the math students did, but a fair amount.

[DaviddesJ]

I find the fact that you draw a line between math and computer science to be interesting, as they're practically the same thing.

Well, this is something I know very well because I have several math degrees, also studied computer science extensively, and am now involved with several university math programs, as well as having hired a lot of people out of both math and computer science programs. For a variety of reasons, the math curriculum focuses a lot of attention on those aspects of mathematics that (1) describe the physical world, and (2) have unique, objectively verifiable answers. Calculus, differential equations, linear algebra, complex analysis, etc. Even topology. You can't get a math degree without being steeped in the mathematics of the physical world. While computer science requires very little of that; it deals much more with problems which are abstracted from physical realities, and to which there is no single right answer. Certainly there is a field of theoretical computer science that intersects with abstract mathematics. Some of my best friends are professors in those fields. But it's still the case that the experience and sensibility of a math student and a computer science student tend to be quite different.

[Derakon]

I find the fact that you draw a line between math and computer science to be interesting, as they're practically the same thing.

[DaviddesJ]

How do you measure degree? It's different school system, but based on wikipedia article about degree I would say somewhere between masters and doctoral. Of course most of the actual education has been done after school in real life.

But in what subject? My theory is that people who have studied the physical sciences (e.g., math, physics, chemistry) will feel that combining two multipliers by adding them is clearly "wrong". While people from other disciplines less tied to hard realities of the physical world (e.g., computer science, psychology, philosophy) will have a more flexible view.

[Timo Pietilä]

What is your degree in?

How do you measure degree? It's different school system, but based on wikipedia article about degree I would say somewhere between masters and doctoral. Of course most of the actual education has been done after school in real life.

Personally I don't give much credit to decree, I find most people giving it credit just pompous idiots and/or ignorant and jealous.

[DaviddesJ]

You just haven't done enough reasoning to find out how it had been done to make it consistent

As I wrote, it isn't inconsistency, you just make that multiplication twice individually. Net result is same as slay and launcher multiplier added together.

If you have only slay it is x3, and if you have only x3 launcher it is also x3 damage. Add them together when there are both. Net result is x6 damage. That makes perfect sense, no inconsistency there.

What is your degree in?

[Timo Pietilä]

Of course, it makes no significant difference for game balance whether the slay/launcher combination does x5 base damage or x6 base damage. Doing it "wrong" bugs me because I'm a mathematician and internal consistency "feels" better, even when it's irrelevant.

You just haven't done enough reasoning to find out how it had been done to make it consistent

As I wrote, it isn't inconsistency, you just make that multiplication twice individually. Net result is same as slay and launcher multiplier added together.

If you have only slay it is x3, and if you have only x3 launcher it is also x3 damage. Add them together when there are both. Net result is x6 damage. That makes perfect sense, no inconsistency there.

[kaypy]

Is the multiplier from a slay explicitly shown anywhere?

I thought these days it was just something along the lines of "It does extra damage from blah", with the actual calculated damage below.

Which means that the display vs maths is kinda irrelevant, since in order to have a confusing UI, you first need to have a UI.

[Vertigo1]

X0x03 is the only acceptable representation

[MattB]

Well, if you want another data point, physics and law degrees here (+ minor in CS).

Classicist (Latin and Greek).
So I'd like to see (xIII).

[Derakon]

I wonder about the demographics. When I was playing Angband in the 1990s, I had the impression that the majority of the player base were scientists or engineers of one sort or another.

In the 90's, most people who had access to Usenet (and thus could be encountered on RGRA) were scientists or engineers of one sort or another.

I mean, I'd like to agree that Angband has a smarter breed of player than the average game, but I don't think anyone's actually done any surveys.

[Oramin]

Well, if you want another data point, physics and law degrees here (+ minor in CS).

[DaviddesJ]

I wonder about the demographics. When I was playing Angband in the 1990s, I had the impression that the majority of the player base were scientists or engineers of one sort or another.

[Derakon]

Hence the use of the weasel word "most".

[DaviddesJ]

it'd be really unintuitive to most users to have the rule be "add up the relevant multipliers, then subtract 1".

That depends on what subject their degrees are in.