Mage spells in 3.3.2

[Therem Harth]

Just started a new Hobbit Mage, Fortitude, partially so I can take notes on what I think is wrong (or right, as the case may be) with mage spells.

Focusing primarily on damaging spells... Thus far, the main damaging spells are:
- Magic Missile (1 mana, 4d4 damage)
- Stinking Cloud (2, 14)
- Lighting Bolt (4, 3d6)
- Frost Bolt (3, 5d8)

I'm mostly using Magic Missile, followed by Frost Bolt. Stinking Cloud hasn't seen much use, but that may change. Lightning Bolt I do not use at all, because it is not only less damaging than Frost Bolt but uses more mana; I'm not sure that similar damage to Magic Missile for 4 times the mana can be justified.

BTW, I'm somewhat surprised to say that this guy is much more fun on the low levels than more melee-oriented characters! Anyway I'll keep up my thoughts as the game continues.

[Derakon]

Stinking Cloud has fairly limited applications, mostly for dealing with groups of lice or rodents.

Remember that Lightning Bolt always beams. This makes it handy for taking out groups of enemies in corridors, especially if they're not vulnerable to light.

[Therem Harth]

Aaand died, courtesy of casting Wonder on a large kobold, which the spell both cloned and hasted. A short chase later, I flubbed a teleport spell while pinned by the kobolds and a few other monsters. Guess I'll have to start another mage.

BTW, granted that the death was (as usual) mostly my fault, two deleterious effects from Wonder in one casting seems a little much to me; IMO the risk of something bad happening should not outweigh a spell's potential utility, otherwise experienced players will avoid using it.

Edit: I didn't notice that about Lightning Bolt, so forget what I said about the low damage being unjustified.

[Zyphyr]

Cloning includes Haste, so technically you only got 1 negative.

[Therem Harth]

Hmm? Why would clone include haste? To prevent people from abusing Wonder for farming?

[saarn]

Aaand died, courtesy of casting Wonder on a large kobold, which the spell both cloned and hasted. A short chase later, I flubbed a teleport spell while pinned by the kobolds and a few other monsters. Guess I'll have to start another mage.

BTW, granted that the death was (as usual) mostly my fault, two deleterious effects from Wonder in one casting seems a little much to me; IMO the risk of something bad happening should not outweigh a spell's potential utility, otherwise experienced players will avoid using it.

Edit: I didn't notice that about Lightning Bolt, so forget what I said about the low damage being unjustified.

Yup. Lightning bolt is a great spell for splatting those pesky hill orcs-- get them upset and pull them all down a nice long corridor and hope you have enough mana. Of course you would use spear of light for cave orcs/snagas/etc.

IMO, wonder is a junk spell. Mages are scary enough without trusting to chance (and the spell is damn expensive too).

[Derakon]

Hmm? Why would clone include haste? To prevent people from abusing Wonder for farming?

More specifically to keep people from abusing Wands of Clone Monster; Wonder just happens to use the same effect.

IMO the Wonder spell as cast by a mage should have no chance of negative effects, since the range of positive effects it can invoke is so wide anyway. Wonder in general (spell and wand) needs an overhaul though. It's a really complicated system with a bunch of effects that only a level-50 mage getting really lucky while casting the spell could ever see.

[Estie]

I sometimes use (wands of) wonder as a Smeagol/Wormtongue killer early on, though I wouldnt keep the wands around just for that purpose; with no selling option on, those 2 uniques would live a bit longer.

[Derakon]

With no-selling on, I typically have enough inventory space free that I'm willing to devote a slot to an unreliable panic button for at least the early game. Especially if you get the high-end fireball/acid ball, you can really simplify a number of tough uniques, and if you don't have any other ranged attacks, you might as well. Just be prepared to run if you end up with a hasted, healed Wormtongue.

[Therem Harth]

Started a new hobbit mage, Lucky Strike. Since this guy died and was accidentally resurrected, I've decided to keep him as a savescummed game rather than go to the trouble of starting a new mage.

Actually, I'm kind of glad I did; gameplay with this guy is, if anything, more exciting without the threat of permadeath (and another boring restart).

So yeah, obviously he won't appear on the ladder, but I'll keep commenting here about my experience with the magic system.

[Starhawk]

More specifically to keep people from abusing Wands of Clone Monster; Wonder just happens to use the same effect.

IMO the Wonder spell as cast by a mage should have no chance of negative effects, since the range of positive effects it can invoke is so wide anyway. Wonder in general (spell and wand) needs an overhaul though. It's a really complicated system with a bunch of effects that only a level-50 mage getting really lucky while casting the spell could ever see.

I just wish there was a message that told you what spell effect had just happened. Too often I zap a Wand of Wonder and get "The -foo- grunts in pain." Um... oh. Multiple messages? Must have been a ball of something.

[Derakon]

Turn up the delay factor in the options and you can see the animation of the spell, including whether it's a bolt, beam, or ball as well as which color it is (from which you can generally infer the element).

The delay factor really, really needs to not default to 0. I've had friends who played for years without ever realizing that the game included animations. 10ms should be a decent default -- fast enough to not make the game lag but slow enough that you can see that something happened.

[debo]

Vanilla has animations?!?! Whoa!!

[Arphod]

I sometimes use (wands of) wonder as a Smeagol/Wormtongue killer early on, though I wouldnt keep the wands around just for that purpose; with no selling option on, those 2 uniques would live a bit longer.

A couple speed potions, scrolls of phase door, and a short bow is all I need for Wormtongue. Wonder? Blech.

[Djabanete]

I also use Wands of Wonder for softening up various early uniques, especially Wormtongue. They can sometimes give you the edge you need. Potions of Speed are too precious IMO --- I only use them to save my life.