Horned Reaper should break through walls

[ranger jeff]

Just an idea. Was hoping for some drops from a demon pit at lvl98 but as I skirted around it the damn horned reaper trampled 95% of the demons in there. Stupid. Either there should be more subtlety between trampling and pushing past, or let the dang reaper come right through the wall at me rather than trampling everybody in the pit (rectangular pits, you know.)

[Starhawk]

Because there's nothing like an entire pit of awake, angry demons stomping through the level at you.

Your proposed change would make levels with demon pits unplayable for anyone who isn't prepared to stomp each and every demon in the pit, since the Horned Reaper would end up leading them all straight to you.

[Estie]

Mass summoners who level the terrain, yes. ToME2 endgame was like that, it gets old fast.

Compare that to the undead pit: Black reavers might bore a tunnel, some things will evaporate....its an interesting tactical game clearing those; big U pits not so much, but can be fun when you try to keep the numbers up in a controlled way. And yes, Horned Reapers ruin the fun.

[debo]

By the endgame, I avoid U pits every single time, and undead pits more often than not. It's just not worth it, they take forever to kill and I get irrationally angry when my consumables get obliterated.

Dragon pits are a joke in comparison, and you get similar loot from their corpses.

The only good thing about U pits, IMO, is that they're generally easy to avoid. If Horned Reapers can munch through walls, though... :[

[Derakon]

Black Reavers are notably inobservant. They'll stop chasing you pretty quickly if you get away from them -- and ones that spawn asleep (which doesn't include those in graveyards) are very hard to wake up. This is almost certainly supposed to balance out their notable destructive potential.

Personally I'd just disallow Horned Reapers from spawning in demon pits. You shouldn't have monsters in a pit that, through their presence, make the pit less of a threat. Heck, I wouldn't care much if they were removed from the game entirely; they're a recent addition and I've never really found them that interesting to fight.

[Estie]

I wouldnt go so far as to remove them, they are tough melee monsters as opposed to breathweapon using elemental pit fiends/balrogs. However, the trample mechanic could be changed or removed.

Its true that lategame I dont clear every undead pit, but the first one is almost always worthwhile if I have the means to handle it. Also, if det obj shows something like a palanthir inside, its pit clearing time. Thats the advantage of det obj; it makes you clear hard pits which youd ignore without the spell.

[Derakon]

Alternately, Detect Objects tells you when it's worth the bother to burn Banishment charges / lure monsters out and Destruct them.

(Do drujs still show up in graveyards? So not worth dealing with them if so, unless you have an effective spammable ball spell...which is almost as cheesy as banish)

[will_asher]

What about just making KILL_BODY monsters not trample monsters of their own type (demons not trample demons)

[Derakon]

That would make the flavor text of the Horned Reaper inaccurate, if nothing else.

[Antoine]

I though horned reapers had already been removed from pits in the recent pit revamp?

[buzzkill]

What about a 'blink' spell. That could get them out of the pit a bit more quickly = less trampling.

[Derakon]

Monsters out of LOS don't cast spells in Vanilla. By the time the player manages to get any demons into LOS, the Reaper's already wiped the entire pit out.

[buzzkill]

Monsters out of LOS don't cast spells in Vanilla.

{cough} special case {/cough}... or just adopt OoLoS casting. Lots of variants have. It wouldn't be the most controversial thing to happen in recent times.

[PowerWyrm]

Yup, hornies are gone from U pits in the latest version. But that's probably post-3.3.2...

[debo]

I was playing 3.3.2 on my (first and) previous winner, and found Horned Reapers in some pits, IIRC -- I started out on 3.3.1, but I'm pretty sure I didn't make it anywhere close to DL90 until long after I'd upgraded.