thinking about a no artifact game, need help

[Storm-Sky]

So I'm thinking about a no artifact game on my next playthrough. Wondering these things:
!. which class would work best to use only ego items

2. What would your end game choices for equipment look like?

3. would there be any resists not covered by playing a no artifact game?

[Timo Pietilä]

So I'm thinking about a no artifact game on my next playthrough. Wondering these things:
!. which class would work best to use only ego items

2. What would your end game choices for equipment look like?

3. would there be any resists not covered by playing a no artifact game?

1) If you are not playing game with dungeon spellbooks as artifacts: Ranger.

2) Bow of Lothlorien + other relevant gear (ESP, FA, pConf, Basic4, Poison, Speed, stats, damage).

3) Yes, but everything that matters can be covered easily.

[Derakon]

It should theoretically be possible to cover every resist with non-artifact gear, especially with dragon scale mail available. Power DSM covers everything except nexus and nether, element-wise (and also still gives you protection from confusion, for that matter). Or Balance DSM + Shield of Resistance + Thievery amulet. Et cetera.

Of course, the only resists that you really have to have are the basic 4 and poison. All the other elements are gravy, really, though it's very nice if you can get blindness and confusion protection.

[Timo Pietilä]

It should theoretically be possible to cover every resist with non-artifact gear, especially with dragon scale mail available. Power DSM covers everything except nexus and nether, element-wise (and also still gives you protection from confusion, for that matter). Or Balance DSM + Shield of Resistance + Thievery amulet. Et cetera.

Of course, the only resists that you really have to have are the basic 4 and poison. All the other elements are gravy, really, though it's very nice if you can get blindness and confusion protection.

Getting nether resist without artifacts can be tough. You need luck with usable armor with random resist to get that one. I think everything else can be got from basic features of some ego-armor/amulet.

BalanceDSM + Shield of Elvenkind {nether}, AoThievery, Cloak of Magi {pConf} (or Lothlorien {pConf}) and Night and Day covers everything, but you have trouble of getting required stats with that combo. I always end up using Crown of Might +3 with artifactless char, STR, DEX and CON just are that important. You also get sustains for those stats which is important late in game.

[Storm-Sky]

I'm thinking of a dwarven priest run, the blindness resistance could help along with the healing spells, and dispelling, with possibly looking for a mace of disruption for final weapon, honestly artifacts sidetrack me.....it quicky becomes a game of looking for artifacts and then indiscion on what to use, especially randarts.

I think I would like to see much less artifacts but with a power level boost for the rarity, some artifacts aren't as good as some ego's. By the way I'm playing V 3,3,2 official release, so not worried about spellbooks as artifacts, but my question is why change the way they are generated? And do they have a fix for a no artifact game in lastest releases?

[Derakon]

The spellbooks-as-artifacts thing won't be released outside of betatesting until it's been fixed so they still show up in no-artifact games, and have roughly the same odds of being generated by a given depth as in the current system. The intention is to avoid generating a bunch of junk items, since every copy of a given spellbook after the first is redundant.

[Storm-Sky]

I know in previeous games, spellbooks could be stolen, so in theory does this mean that your artifact spellbook could be stolen? And by beta testing, this means not the nighties? I like to keep current with the game.

[Storm-Sky]

Would you go with Dunadan ranger or High-elf ranger? What would your thoughts be on a dunadan rogue?

[Magnate]

I know in previeous games, spellbooks could be stolen, so in theory does this mean that your artifact spellbook could be stolen? And by beta testing, this means not the nighties? I like to keep current with the game.

Then you might like to read this thread, which explains what "v4" is and why it was created.

As Derakon says, changing dungeon spellbooks into artifacts is a longstanding idea to avoid redundant copies of them being created. It has been introduced in v4, which is what Derakon meant by beta testing. They have been fixed to drop in no-artifact games, from certain uniques. And since you mentioned it in an earlier post, v4 has a lower frequency of artifact drops overall.

But the spellbook change has not yet been introduced into the V develepment builds (aka nightlies) - which I guess could now be considered gamma testing.

HTH.

[Timo Pietilä]

I know in previeous games, spellbooks could be stolen, so in theory does this mean that your artifact spellbook could be stolen?

Artifacts can't be stolen, so that prevents them from theft.

[bron]

I have played a lot of no-artifacts games. I believe it is possible to win with any class, but generally it is the hand-to-hand combat that suffers the most, so classes that rely on HTH are generally at the biggest disadvantage compared to games with artifacts.

As others have noted, some of the resists are very hard to come by; you generally have to do without a couple of them. The new Dragon Scale Mail Ego's should help in this regard. If you can't cast "Resistance", then temporary electrical resistance is hard. I have been known to carry a Ring of Lightning specifically for the purpose of fighting Ancalagon, and then discarding it afterwards. (Note that you can put on the ring, activate it, then take it off.)

+Con items are rare. My final kit normally consists of one +Con ring, one ring of speed, boots of speed, and an amulet of trickery, and whatever armor I've managed to find.

For a melee weapon, you're looking for one of the big three (blade of chaos, scythe of slicing, or mace of disruption) with some form of Slay Evil (Slay Evil, *Slay Evil*, or Holy Avenger) or possibly Extra Attacks. If you can do 70(+) damage per blow, that's pretty good with no-artifacts. If you don't particularly plan on using the melee weapon all that much, look for something with a good side-effect: a Westernesse weapon with +2 Con, or a Blessed, Gondolin, or *Slay Evil* weapon with a good ability (e.g. telepathy)

For a ranger, your goal is to find a longbow of Lothorien with +2 Might, an awesome weapon at 3 shots per round. You'll probably have to settle for something less. For other characters, a Haradrim light crossbow, or a heavy crossbow of extra shots. A <+2,+2> Buckland sling is even better, but don't count on being able to find one.

No-artifacts is definitely more of a challenge, and you have to be willing to take more time to find needed items. In particular, you need to be on the lookout for items with random resists and abilities that can plug holes. But try not to get too hung up searching for that "perfect" item: a Blade of Chaos of Gondolin with ESP might be just exactly what you want, but you'll probably never find one.

Good luck!

[Storm-Sky]

I'm seriously thinking about a dwarven rogue, high saves, infravision, stealth, good con, plus the ability to wield bows decently, good melee skills, and high hp's, not to mention resistance to blindeness, and the ability to cast good spells later on such as resistance and shield, and teleport, what's your thoughts on this class combo? my biggest concern is healing, my last half-troll warrior made it all the way to level 99 but couldn't get the job done, couldn't find enough healing consumables to keep wiping out the high level uniques like vecna, the terrasque, and ancalagon, despite having every resist covered. i think stealth would have probably helped a lot though. I was playing randarts so i got a mismatched sort of equipment list.

[bron]

I'm seriously thinking about a dwarven rogue [...] what's your thoughts on this class combo?

It is certainly a viable choice. I ran a no-artifacts ironman character with a High Elf Rogue (http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=10439 with discussion in http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=3475) so I should think a Dwarf would be a good choice as well.

[Storm-Sky]

I'm going to give that run a try, I'm prone to dwarves, after that I will probably try a high-elf ranger. i find artifacts interesting specifically randarts yet they tend to distract me from the gear I really need to choose, perhaps I will be happier with less choices and look for ego's.

[artes]

Playing a game without using artifacts sounds like an interesting idea. I've long thought it sad that I hardly use ego items even though they have such cool names, because I most often quickly find an artifact that is better.

I think I would like to see much less artifacts but with a power level boost for the rarity, some artifacts aren't as good as some ego's.

I don't think artifacts necessarily should be stronger than ego items. I really like to find an ego item that is stronger, because I think they are more cool than artifacts.