"Half-burned torches for sale!"

[Zero]

"Get your certified pre-owned torches right here!"

Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that the general store vendors will sell torches with 6000 turn capacity at 3000 turns remaining? Whenever I find myself buying torches, the first thing I do when I get out of the store is combine them into a stack of n/2, where n is the number I bought. I think for the sake of convenience and flavor the torches should be 6000 when bought.

[Narvius]

And, after all, it's unrealistic as hell to combine torches. At least without any glue.

[takkaria]

"Get your certified pre-owned torches right here!"

Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that the general store vendors will sell torches with 6000 turn capacity at 3000 turns remaining? Whenever I find myself buying torches, the first thing I do when I get out of the store is combine them into a stack of n/2, where n is the number I bought. I think for the sake of convenience and flavor the torches should be 6000 when bought.

Maybe I should fix the maximum capacity of torches to 4000 and nuke this "combining" thing altogether.

[AR_chie]

And, after all, it's unrealistic as hell to combine torches. At least without any glue.

use your imagination - try bend them together with a rope

[Zero]

Maybe I should fix the maximum capacity of torches to 4000 and nuke this "combining" thing altogether.

Up to you. The maximum value doesn't matter as much as the fact that each torch weighs 3.0 lbs. That's mainly why I combine them. If you're playing a low STR character like a mage the weight of three or four torches becomes significant.

How much code modification would be required to make the weight a function of the number of turns remaining? So, for example, you could take a 3 lb torch with 3000 turns and combine it with another 3 lb torch with 3000 turns and get a 6 lb torch with 6000 turns? I realize that this change would involve much more code modification than simply adjusting the weight of torches, or their maximum turns.

It might be best to specify a base weight, and then turns per 0.1 lb. For example, an empty lantern could weigh 5 lbs, but a lantern with 15000 turns could weigh 7 lbs. 30000 turns would be 9 lbs. Don't overfill your lantern, or you could end up waiting a really long time.

[takkaria]

Up to you. The maximum value doesn't matter as much as the fact that each torch weighs 3.0 lbs. That's mainly why I combine them. If you're playing a low STR character like a mage the weight of three or four torches becomes significant.

How much code modification would be required to make the weight a function of the number of turns remaining? So, for example, you could take a 3 lb torch with 3000 turns and combine it with another 3 lb torch with 3000 turns and get a 6 lb torch with 6000 turns? I realize that this change would involve much more code modification than simply adjusting the weight of torches, or their maximum turns.

It might be best to specify a base weight, and then turns per 0.1 lb. For example, an empty lantern could weigh 5 lbs, but a lantern with 15000 turns could weigh 7 lbs. 30000 turns would be 9 lbs. Don't overfill your lantern, or you could end up waiting a really long time.

It wouldn't be too hard, but I think it might just be a bit pointless, and a little confusing -- no-one else does this. Perhaps a solution would be wand/rod-style stacking of lanterns+torches. That makes combining (the horrible idea that it is) removable, but replaces it with a nastier hack. Hmm.

[camlost]

Maybe I should fix the maximum capacity of torches to 4000 and nuke this "combining" thing altogether.

This would make Ego torches suck really bad.

It wouldn't be too hard, but I think it might just be a bit pointless, and a little confusing -- no-one else does this. Perhaps a solution would be wand/rod-style stacking of lanterns+torches. That makes combining (the horrible idea that it is) removable, but replaces it with a nastier hack. Hmm.

I think I pitched this to Leon in Sangband, and I think he came back correctly to shoot it down. I'd vote to just have all torches show up with full fuel and call it a day. It works pretty well in Iron, right?

[K.I.L.E.R]

Maybe I should fix the maximum capacity of torches to 4000 and nuke this "combining" thing altogether.

Better yet, introduce glow sticks.

[roustk]

Maybe I should fix the maximum capacity of torches to 4000 and nuke this "combining" thing altogether.

You probably should also consider the interaction between such changes and reduced light radius. Under current settings (reduce at 1500, iirc), this means that each torch will give only 2500 turns of bright light, as opposed to the 3000 now.

Non-refillable ego torches would be interesting, and not necessarily in a bad way. It would be quite reasonable to use a burned out Torch of True Sight (if those can be enabled) and a helm of Light while waiting for the Phial.

Kevin

[takkaria]

I'd vote to just have all torches show up with full fuel and call it a day. It works pretty well in Iron, right?

Done:

 - Make torches always be found at 5000 turns
 - Make lanterns always be found at 7500 turns

[roustk]

 - Make torches always be found at 5000 turns
 - Make lanterns always be found at 7500 turns

If I'm reading the code right (changeset 681 on trac), this applies both to store and dungeon torches and lanterns. A subtle effect of this is to make early life slightly easier for most characters (found torches stack with bought torches saving slots), but possibly harder for low-STR characters (cannot carry a found torch without slowing and cannot refuel with the found one, because it is now full rather than having, say, 1138 turns).

Not a complaint, just a balance note.

Kevin

[Rizwan]

I'd vote to just have all torches show up with full fuel and call it a day. It works pretty well in Iron, right?

From a reality point of view it would not make much sense to have ALL the torches in the dungeon show up with full fuel. I mean some dead explorer would also leave burnt out torches as well. So maybe some torches in the dungeon could be full but some would be totally empty. There would be no torches with in between fuel in them. Same for lanterns.
I wonder if that would be too hard to code though.

[takkaria]

From a reality point of view it would not make much sense to have ALL the torches in the dungeon show up with full fuel. I mean some dead explorer would also leave burnt out torches as well. So maybe some torches in the dungeon could be full but some would be totally empty. There would be no torches with in between fuel in them. Same for lanterns.
I wonder if that would be too hard to code though.

I'm ignoring the reality point of view here. I just assume that the character ignores burnt-out torches, skeletons in the corners, etc., and so they never need to be shown the player.

[MKula]

Or, if we`re talking about realism here, why not leave the dungeon torches/lanterns the way they are (half burnt, which makes sense), and just change the store-bought ones to have full fuel (torches = 5000, lanterns = 7500, or whatever the consensus arrives at, which also makes sense)?

[Rizwan]

Or, if we`re talking about realism here, why not leave the dungeon torches/lanterns the way they are (half burnt, which makes sense),

Actually it doesn't. Suppose a person is carrying a torch or a lantern and gets killed then the torch/lantern will not automatically turn off/stop burning. It will continue to burn until the fuel is finished in which case you will have light sources with zero turns of light in them. Only the fully fueled sources of light in the backpack will survive. Unless you like keeping partially used torches in your backpack.