How do you kill Saruman?

**momo125** · January 5, 2008, 21:25

More speed. He resists base execpt acid. find slay evil or acid arrows.
kill some elemental wurms and try to find better RoS

**Djabanete** · January 6, 2008, 02:38

You probably need more speed and/or damage. Be patient, artifacts and speed rings will turn up. When you feel ready to fight him:

- dig an anti-summoning corridor
- use ?Blessing and !Heroism
- cast Haste Self and Resistance (if available to rogues; otherwise, !RHeat and !RCold)

No point in not using cheap/replenishable resources to shorten the odds. Using all your buffs makes a big difference.

**Paffa** · January 6, 2008, 19:36

Don't think on taking Saruman in melee unless you have disenchantment resistance. Unless you want your kit screwed :P

**Djabanete** · January 7, 2008, 08:43

Originally posted by Paffa

Don't think on taking Saruman in melee unless you have disenchantment resistance. Unless you want your kit screwed :P

Oops, I never knew that. (Only time I fought him in V, I was using Calris.) Good thing some people on this site know what they're doing.

**gglibertine** · January 7, 2008, 20:22

Whew. I finally found another ring of speed -- but I'm torn. I was already wearing a ring of speed +2 and a ring of CON +4. replacing the ring of CON with the new ring of speed -- +6 -- gives me a max speed of +21, but loses me over 100 HP. Tough call....

**konijn_** · January 7, 2008, 20:32

Originally posted by gglibertine

Whew. I finally found another ring of speed -- but I'm torn. I was already wearing a ring of speed +2 and a ring of CON +4. replacing the ring of CON with the new ring of speed -- +6 -- gives me a max speed of +21, but loses me over 100 HP. Tough call....

Not really, keep the ring of +6 and con, toss the +2.

PS : Your signature disturbs me

**gglibertine** · January 8, 2008, 20:51

Woohoo! I killed him! Most fortunately, he summoned a bunch of demons and dragons to protect himself, one of which dropped Calris. I had to put down the Lance of Eorlingas, but that only dropped my base speed to +15, and Calris is enough lighter that I got an extra hit with it. I lost Resist Fear, but used Heroism to deal with that, and Calris giving me Resist Disenchantment meant I could take on Mr. Many-Colored mano a mano; it was still a near thing, but I got the bastard and teleported out to recover before taking on the rest of the swarm he'd summoned. AND he thoughtfully dropped the Arkenstone for me.

I like Calris. Calris is my pal.

**aeneas** · January 15, 2008, 18:33

Originally posted by gglibertine

Woohoo! I killed him! Most fortunately, he summoned a bunch of demons and dragons to protect himself, one of which dropped Calris. I had to put down the Lance of Eorlingas, but that only dropped my base speed to +15, and Calris is enough lighter that I got an extra hit with it. I lost Resist Fear, but used Heroism to deal with that, and Calris giving me Resist Disenchantment meant I could take on Mr. Many-Colored mano a mano; it was still a near thing, but I got the bastard and teleported out to recover before taking on the rest of the swarm he'd summoned. AND he thoughtfully dropped the Arkenstone for me.

I like Calris. Calris is my pal.

Nice- Saruman drops only excellent items, so he is often a very nice power boost. I haven't been around lately- if I had been I would probably have said, in answer to your thread title, "wait till you are deeper" (I generally _can't_ kill him until long after I first see him- he drives me nuts by forcing me off levels, as he is not prone to sleeping)- but you knocked him off, and got Calris, so... worked out well for you. Next time you play try killing him at around 4000'- you are almost guaranteed some nice stuff at that depth. I've gotten a total of two sets of BoS+10 from him, plus many other nice things.

Anyway, if I remember your previous posts correctly seems like you have broken through a barrier after some years of play... congrats on Saruman, he is a milestone (he's quite tough for his depth). Once you can kill him regularly it is just a matter of time 'till you win. Calris.. well, if you'll forgive me this, Calris is a double-edged sword

. As a rogue you will want to un-curse it and then... only wield it when you know what is around, and then mainly against dragons. Stealth is the rogue's best point, and wielding Calris obviously obviates that. OTOH you ought to be able to chew up the elemental Wyrms with it, and they drop_good. So I'd go hunting Wyrms if I were you. Carefully

. The game changes qualitatively at some point- you're well past that point so you know what I mean, but... it can still sneak up on you, particularly 'till you know that depth well.

And yeah- keep =Con. +8 to speed is not that much better than +6- certainly not as important as 100 hp. Have you considered posting a dump? Makes it easier to comment.

BTW- do you mind if I ask which series you have subbed? Just curious.

Edit: err- misread your post, as regards speed... what are your choices for speed? without a dump it is hard to comment... anyway the 100 hp are almost certainly better... also, btw, nice find in Fingolfin... seems like I never get them until late.

**gglibertine** · January 15, 2008, 19:44

Originally posted by aeneas

Calris.. well, if you'll forgive me this, Calris is a double-edged sword

. As a rogue you will want to un-curse it and then... only wield it when you know what is around, and then mainly against dragons. Stealth is the rogue's best point, and wielding Calris obviously obviates that. OTOH you ought to be able to chew up the elemental Wyrms with it, and they drop_good. So I'd go hunting Wyrms if I were you. Carefully

. The game changes qualitatively at some point- you're well past that point so you know what I mean, but... it can still sneak up on you, particularly 'till you know that depth well.

Well, now I've got Ringil, so things are definitely much improved. My base speed is up to +30, thanks to a couple of rings of speed and assorted artifact bonuses. I had to do without the extra CON for a while, but eventually decided I needed the bonuses from The Small Metal Shield of Thorin more than I did the sustains from my Shield of Preservation; I was carrying around mushrooms of restoring anyway because of those pesky time hounds, so what the hell.

I don't know how to take a dump or post it... I should figure that out, I guess.

BTW- do you mind if I ask which series you have subbed? Just curious.

Nothing that's been released yet. I've been working on subs for Marrying Type and Golden Apple, both Korean dramas, but I'm still waiting for the transcriber to finish the scripts, and both series still need timers and QA -- if you can do that, you ought to go over and volunteer!

**Djabanete** · January 15, 2008, 22:29

Posting a dump is easy. While in game, press "C" for character screen, then press "f" to make a dump. Name it whatever you want (the name of your character is the default name), then press Enter. A text file will appear in your angband/lib/user directory.

Then, go on Oook, click on an existing dump, scroll to the bottom of the dump, click where it says "Submit your dump!", and fill out the fields: character name, text file (which you just created), and comments (if you want). Then everyone can see your character!!

**aeneas** · January 18, 2008, 09:58

Originally posted by gglibertine

Well, now I've got Ringil, so things are definitely much improved.

Ah, well... Ringil tends to improve your kit. One of the advantages to playing slowly is that you are likely to find it eventually just because of how often Long Swords are generated. OTOH, Ringil's reputation is better than it deserves- in older versions of Angband it was hard to get to +20 speed (which you need to kill Morgy with no risk of double moves). JLE adds so many ways to get there that there are weapons that are sometimes better, particularly if you tend to play long games. But.. Ringil is nothing to sneeze at

. Few of my winners have anything close to as nice.

Originally posted by gglibertine

My base speed is up to +30, thanks to a couple of rings of speed and assorted artifact bonuses. I had to do without the extra CON for a while...

The most perm speed that you need is +22. At +32, counting temp, nothing can get a double move on you (at +22 only a few things can). The relationship between speed and energy is not linear- additional speed is not useful after a certain point. I'm not sure what your choices were, but if I can haste at will I will usually not give up even one significant point of Con to get perm speed past +22. Speed is super-sexy, but good players know that even sexy has limits

.

Originally posted by gglibertine

but eventually decided I needed the bonuses from The Small Metal Shield of Thorin more than I did the sustains from my Shield of Preservation; I was carrying around mushrooms of restoring anyway because of those pesky time hounds, so what the hell.

Thorin is the best shield in Angband (without randarts). I very rarely wear another shield once I've found it... meleeing Morgy is about the only exception (rbase would be another, but it is rarely an issue at that point), and even then it's rare. If you're choosing another shield, your kit is likely not as good as it could be. Time hounds should be avoided unless you have a _really_ good reason.

Originally posted by gglibertine

Nothing that's been released yet..i f you can do that, you ought to go over and volunteer!

I'm credited as translator on a couple of J-drama episodes available from d-addicts. Afraid I don't speak any Korean though.

**gglibertine** · January 18, 2008, 18:11

Originally posted by aeneas

The most perm speed that you need is +22. At +32, counting temp, nothing can get a double move on you (at +22 only a few things can).

Now, that's useful info! Thanks for letting me know -- it meant I got to put my ring of CON +5 on, which gave me nearly 200 more HP... Am I correct in thinking that once my stats are maxed out, RNexus isn't as important as, say, RNether? I just swapped out my boots of stability with Dal-i-thalion to see how that works out, because I really need that RNether.

Originally posted by aeneas

I'm credited as translator on a couple of J-drama episodes available from d-addicts. Afraid I don't speak any Korean though.

Oh, I don't speak any Korean either, though I do have a Korean friend who helps me out when the translation I'm working with indicates there's some kind of unknown idiom going on. I just edit sloppy transcripts into better English. I wish I could do actual translation -- I want to learn another language, probably Japanese, so that I can -- but it'll be a long time before that happens, I think.

What are your favorite dramas, then? I think my favorite of all time is the Taiwanese Hana Kimi (I don't think I've ever laughed so hard in my life), with With Love (starring the amazing Takenouchi Yutaka) running a close second, neck and neck with Engine. (I haven't even seen the Japanese Hana Kimi yet -- I almost don't want to, because I loved the Taiwanese one so much.)
And I have a lingering fondness for Kira Kira Hikaru, which I've been unable to get my hands on subbed -- I saw it on the International Channel years ago before Fuji TV started being assholes about subbing. KKH is one of those ones that's just plain *weird*, but charmingly so.

**zaimoni** · January 18, 2008, 19:15

Originally posted by gglibertine

Am I correct in thinking that once my stats are maxed out, RNexus isn't as important as, say, RNether?

RNether is moderately useful at even moderately high levels (each unresisted nether attack will cost you at least 2% of your experience, and hold life only reduces this to 0.2% reliably).

Maxing stats merely prevents stat scrambling from being meaningful. The teleport-level effect can be nullified by a perfect saving throw as well; RNexus is required to stop both teleport-to and teleport(200).

I'd probably take RNexus over RNether for the early/mid game (DL > 50), although this does start getting questionable around DL 40.

**aeneas** · January 19, 2008, 13:06

Originally posted by gglibertine

Now, that's useful info! Thanks for letting me know -- it meant I got to put my ring of CON +5 on, which gave me nearly 200 more HP...

It's probably worth mentioning that it is not 100% correct, just so I don't get blamed in the unlikely event that it fails you- I think a hasted Death Mold could get a double move, for instance (but why were you standing next to a hasted Death Mold?) Also, higher speeds are useful if you get brain smashed, but... it's the shorthand calc I use for speed, and I think I am not alone in that. The marginal cases aren't all that important. Anyway, +200 hp is _vastly_ more important than perm speed past +22 (and +20 is probably just as good), if you can haste easily. Don't misunderstand- speed above +32 is valuable, but it is not nearly as valuable as some other things.

Originally posted by gglibertine

Am I correct in thinking that once my stats are maxed out, RNexus isn't as important as, say, RNether? I just swapped out my boots of stability with Dal-i-thalion to see how that works out, because I really need that RNether.

Depends... Nexus can be hugely annoying if you get tele'd off a level two spaces from a Long Sword(4d5), in V at least (in, say, NPP it is likely just an odd-dice weapon). You already have Ringil, and winning kit from the sounds of it, so that is not quite as big a deal anymore. Nexus can also be deadly to lower level characters if they get tele'd out of a vault after teleing a lot of nasty stuff away... the last thing you want is to be dumped into their line of sight after waking them up.

Nether is good to have, particularly if you decide to kill Azriel (I almost never do), but not necessary- it doesn't necessarily cut damage by much, so you can't rely on it. I think nether does 550 max without the resist and 471 max with it (though usually it will cut the damage by more than that, which matters in a long fight). This is why high hp are so valuable- the resists past poison don't cut damage by all that much (and I think Nether cuts the least), and are more important for avoiding side effects. Nether's side effect is xp drain, which is meaningless.

Neither Nexus nor Nether is all that important. Dal-i-Thalion would normally be a lot better; from what I know about your kit they are only slightly better at this point. But I would make the same choice- wear them.

Originally posted by gglibertine

I want to learn another language, probably Japanese, so that I can -- but it'll be a long time before that happens, I think.

Well, if you want to translate J-Dramas, Japanese would be a good choice of language, I think. Significantly better than the alternatives

. But yeah, joking aside, it takes a while. I've done some fan translation but... I'm not yet at a point where I feel solid doing it.

Originally posted by gglibertine

What are your favorite dramas, then?

I actually haven't seen any of the dramas you mentioned. I guess it's hard to say- I watch dramas mainly for the Japanese. I thought the middle episodes of the first season of Hana Yori were pretty funny, but it dragged badly toward the end (I gave up on the second season halfway through). I'll watch anything with Ito Misaki, but that has little to do with the quality of the dramas she's been in. I liked Boku Dake no Madonna as well, for similar reasons.

It's a bit embarrassing to admit this but I actually really liked Ace wo Nerae- it is so cynically manipulative that it disarms my natural cynicism

.

Probably the old Koukou Kyoushi is my favorite (not the 2003 drama, but the 1993 iteration). The 2003 version is actually kind of fun too, but it is beyond cynically manipulative- it is meta-cynically manipulative.

I also liked Yasashii Jikan and Ai Kurushii (which has yet to be fully subbed I think) despite the fact that they made me feel as if I were drowning in treacle at times.

I've considered seeking permission to rework the available softsubs for the drama based on 'Flowers for Algernon'. I can't say I love the drama, but I did like the novelette, and the current subs could use some work.

How do you kill Saruman?