Cloak Rarity

[UglySquirrell]

Has the frequency of cloaks been reduced in the newer versions? I'm playing really slowly building up a no weapons character . I'm currently hanging out at levels 18-19 looking for a ring of damage. My turncounts around 500,000 turns and I've found a ros, bos, shield of elvenkind, and about, six artifacts. Since entering the dungeon I think I've seen a total of 2 cloaks. Am I just really unlucky? Im used to sorting through a stack of egos and at least 1 artifact cloak by level 20.

[fizzix]

Has the frequency of cloaks been reduced in the newer versions? I'm playing really slowly building up a no weapons character . I'm currently hanging out at levels 18-19 looking for a ring of damage. My turncounts around 500,000 turns and I've found a ros, bos, shield of elvenkind, and about, six artifacts. Since entering the dungeon I think I've seen a total of 2 cloaks. Am I just really unlucky? Im used to sorting through a stack of egos and at least 1 artifact cloak by level 20.

first of all the fact that you've find RoS and BoS by dlevel 20 indicates that there are some problems in item allocation. I've also noticed BoS dropping very early in many games, and I think that they should be confined to later. RoS should be rarer, although this is in line with other players findings of things like MB9 or PB9 in the first dungeon levels. In many ways, I think finding BoS early ruins the game...

[UglySquirrell]

The boots dropped from Angamaite of Umbar on level 19, and there +2 so not really overpowered. The ros was lucky, but it was a superb feeling
So could have been any late game drop.

[bio_hazard]

I haven't played a lot with 3.3, but I do recall that the cloak slot is usually the last one I fill.

[fizzix]

The boots dropped from Angamaite of Umbar on level 19, and there +2 so not really overpowered. The ros was lucky, but it was a superb feeling
So could have been any late game drop.

Yes, but the problem is the +2 on BoS is completely random. They were just as likely to be +10. When there's that capability, the fact that they're dropped at all is problematic.

[UglySquirrell]

I agree that bos should be rare at lower levels, but still have a chance of dropping. Maybe I just had good luck with cloaks in earlier versions, but cloaks of stealth or protection were usually the first egos I saw. Right up there with boots of FA and slow decent.

[camlost]

Yes, but the problem is the +2 on BoS is completely random. They were just as likely to be +10. When there's that capability, the fact that they're dropped at all is problematic.

Why not use randint(5) + mbonus(5) instead of randint(10)? Or go all out and use mbonus(10)?

[fizzix]

Why not use randint(5) + mbonus(5) instead of randint(10)? Or go all out and use mbonus(10)?

Honestly, I'd rather have the pluses tied to the level. I think Magnate has some plans for ego generation which he'll work on after all the 3.3 bugs are finished.

[UglySquirrell]

Honestly, I'd rather have the pluses tied to the level. I think Magnate has some plans for ego generation which he'll work on after all the 3.3 bugs are finished.

Sure, that would be more balanced. But I think if you start making drops based on the level found it would remove a really fun part of the game, and make the early levels just somewhere to grind well you worked you're way to level 80.

[fizzix]

Sure, that would be more balanced. But I think if you start making drops based on the level found it would remove a really fun part of the game, and make the early levels just somewhere to grind well you worked you're way to level 80.

That depends on the variance. Right now speed rings are tied to levels, but you still found one before dlevel 20. I think the general idea is that grinding should unnecessary, but if you choose to do it, we won't stop you.

[Timo Pietilä]

first of all the fact that you've find RoS and BoS by dlevel 20 indicates that there are some problems in item allocation. I've also noticed BoS dropping very early in many games, and I think that they should be confined to later.

BoS have always been just rare, never restricted by level. I think the current "too many BoS" is caused by rarity calculations being screwy currently (not high enough rarities allowed). Also if UglySquirrell is playing 3.2 then there is "walking in a shoe store" -issue adding in that.

BoS dropping early in some games, some not is one thing I would not like to change, it is one thing that can make games really different. Only that currently they apparently are too common.

This is like Ringil. It too is just rare, not deep item. When you get to stat-gain it is well in depth. Because rarities do not go high enough is why people find it currently too easily.

To Devs: this rarity-issue is affecting too many balance related things, do not try to fix other rarity-related things before you have fixed that, otherwise you might need to revert them back once that has been fixed. Make it high in priority list.

[fizzix]

To Devs: this rarity-issue is affecting too many balance related things, do not try to fix other rarity-related things before you have fixed that, otherwise you might need to revert them back once that has been fixed. Make it high in priority list.

The rarity problem is not as easy as adjusting the numbers. It hinges on how item allocations are fundamentally calculated. You can do some minor changes. For example, you can remove the line of code that makes items that fail to become special artifacts into GREAT items. That removes about 10% of artifacts. You could also change the probabilities that normal items become good or great. However, these changes will do nothing to distinguish between things like BoSpeed and BoStealth. If it looks like an overhaul of ego-item generation is unlikely for 3.4, I will push hard for these quick fix solutions in the meantime.

Certainly the item rarity question is probably the biggest issue, I don't think anyone disputes that. It's just that the way forward isn't entirely clear. And it seems like real-life issues are tough now for many of the devs. (I have a thesis to defend, papers to write, and have to move some considerable distance for a new job in the next 3 months.)

[Derakon]

(I have a thesis to defend, papers to write, and have to move some considerable distance for a new job in the next 3 months.)

Yikes! Good luck! Don't let Angband draw you away from more important things.

[UglySquirrell]

Just out of curiosity, how are boots of elvenkind generated? Or haradrim, Gondolin , weapons or even slings of buckland. I only see things maybe once a few games. The boots I think I've only seen 4 altogether through all my playing.

[Timo Pietilä]

Just out of curiosity, how are boots of elvenkind generated? Or haradrim, Gondolin , weapons or even slings of buckland. I only see things maybe once a few games. The boots I think I've only seen 4 altogether through all my playing.

hm. Good point. I also find elvenkind boots very rarely, they seem to be way more rare than BoS. Maybe that rarity issue is only affecting artifacts?