Some torch ideas

[buzzkill]

That's an interesting idea, the possibility to combine torches to make them shine brighter, maybe with a max of 3, and then the shining is reduced again when their fuel is used up. This would model the flickering and erratic behaviour of a torch, while making them more useful.

I'd add the stipulation that 2 combined torches burn twice as fast, and 3 torches 3x as fast.

[Timo Pietilä]

I'd add the stipulation that 2 combined torches burn twice as fast, and 3 torches 3x as fast.

But because of double-fuel for x2 torches that would lead to same burning time?

[Derakon]

I'd rather not see any fiddly "combine torches to get more light radius" stuff, mostly because it encourages rather tedious actions; the only notable penalty to doing it is weight (and I see that torches now weigh only 1.2 pounds as opposed to the old 3 pounds, so even that's not a serious problem).

Just make torches have a radius-1 light source, and you replace 'em when they go out. Simple, straightforward, atmospheric.

Thematically I did like the idea of leaving a torch on the ground, burning, to light up an area, but in practice I have trouble believing I'd ever use it when Illumination and Spear of Light effects exist.

[Timo Pietilä]

I'd rather not see any fiddly "combine torches to get more light radius" stuff, mostly because it encourages rather tedious actions; the only notable penalty to doing it is weight (and I see that torches now weigh only 1.2 pounds as opposed to the old 3 pounds, so even that's not a serious problem).

So combining 20 of those to get max visual range light radius would make 24 pound torch? That's not too heavy to make, so it sounds like a stupid idea to allow that without other rather heavy penalties.

[fruviad]

For another idea, how about lanterns always being found/sold empty to start with, so you need to find oil before you can make use of them? Maybe you would even have to fuel or ID ego lanterns (other than everburning, obviously) before you could discover their powers.

...and if you're going to make light sources something that you need to ID, then by extension there should be a bad alternative if you try-without-IDing the wrong item.

Perhaps a cursed light source burns fuel more quickly? Or it has a fluctuating light radius? "Hallucination" might be an option if you consider the furtive movements in the distance suggested by the shadows cast by a flickering light source.

[buzzkill]

But because of double-fuel for x2 torches that would lead to same burning time?

No. Assuming 3 torches, each with 5000 turns of fuels, combine them together and you'd have 1 really bright torch, light radius 3, but it'll only burn for 1666 turns.

I don't know if the whole concept (increased light radius for combining torches) it's good for gameplay or not. It seems like a pretty sweet deal for the player without a lantern. Maybe combined torches should combine their weight too. Decreased stealth??? for carrying a frickin' beacon.

[Narvius]

Currently, stealth doesn't affect whether a creature *sees* you, only whether you wake it. And light doesn't really change that (you could argue that they might feel warmth from the fire and stuff, but come on).

[fruviad]

...and if you're going to make light sources something that you need to ID, then by extension there should be a bad alternative if you try-without-IDing the wrong item.

Perhaps a cursed light source burns fuel more quickly? Or it has a fluctuating light radius? "Hallucination" might be an option if you consider the furtive movements in the distance suggested by the shadows cast by a flickering light source.

BTW...my thought on "Hallucination" is that it would be less over-the-top than the effect in 3.1.1 (which I'm currently playing)

[bio_hazard]

You could limit torch # by what's in the off-hand slot. Something like:

No shield & 1-handed weapon= max 3
Small Shield & 1-handed weapon = max 2
Large Shield & 1-handed weapon or 2-handed weapon = max 1.



In terms of "faulty" lanterns, the obvious would seem to be an explosive lantern that might burn up inventory items. Either that, or something that burns extra hot and bright (bigger light radius, burns through oil faster, chance to take a small amount of damage every turn.

[fph]

Can't resist...

The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long.

--Eldon Tyrell (in: Blade Runner)

And now something in-topic: in my post, I was suggesting that torches of brightness can be combined augmenting permanently their light radius. Since you rarely find more than two or three of them, I don't think the mega-torch is an issue in this setting.

(By the way, is combining torches commutative now? I.e., if I fuel a normal torch with a torch of brightness, is the resulting torch a torch of brightness?)

[Timo Pietilä]

(By the way, is combining torches commutative now? I.e., if I fuel a normal torch with a torch of brightness, is the resulting torch a torch of brightness?)

No. Brightness is feature of the item, not the fuel (whatever that is in torches). Other way around you don't lose brightness by refueling it from other torches.

[fph]

if I fuel a normal torch with a torch of brightness, is the resulting torch a torch of brightness?

No.

Hmm, I have checked the code because I wanted to change this, and it seems that the answer is "yes" instead. Kudos to the devs.