Rods of Stone to Mud

[Timo Pietilä]

Maybe have an alternative slot for shovels and picks, I like the idea of using them but hate having to switch weapons.

No thank you. One more slot in already too large selection of equipment. You then have your melee-weapon in one hand, your bow in another, your shovel in another, torch in another and shield in another. That's five arms. Four is at least symmetrical.

Needing to switch weapons is also tactical disadvantage I would like to keep. In fact I would very much like to see bow-slot moved as secondary weapon slot just like it is in Frog-Knows, that one turn you need to use to switch from bow to melee-weapon is quite huge change in combat.

[bio_hazard]

the game has 4 different items that basicaly do the same thing, rods are best for detection, identify, recall. wands are best for actual combat. I think having staffs are pointless, their cumbersome and just seems wierd to be lugging that type of thing around, specifically stacks of them. Also we have scrolls that do alot of the same things, and are lighter. I would support the idea of removing staffs, and move them into the field of wands/rods in areas that aren't covered.
but you could also keep staffs move them to be usuable for a mage as a melee weapon, with the same spell abilities, but requiring a recharge time as a rod/artifact.

I envision something like this- A staff of teleportation (1d6) (0+0)
Activates for teleportation, requires 25 turns to recharge.

But it has to wielded as a melee weapon to use, just like ego, or artifacts.

This would encourage warriors to look for wands and rods, yet encourage mages to look for staffs. then nerf the stores to allow purchase of a few more wands of detection, for warriors at game begining to balance out, so warriors wouldn't be looking so much for staffs of detection, teleport, before they start diving.

You could also go the ToME (2) route, make mage staffs a spell-holding device where the player can choose to store one or more spells in the staff, and staffs give some bonus to max SP, SP regeneration, and/or fail rate.

[nppangband]

the game has 4 different items that basicaly do the same thing, rods are best for detection, identify, recall. wands are best for actual combat.

A long, long time ago, they had separate uses. Wands were for spells that were aimed at monsters or specific points in the dungeon. A staff was for LOS area-spells only, the rest went to scrolls, and rods didn't yet exist. Then with around 20 years of changes the lines got lind of blurred and rods did a mixure of all three.

A warrior is extremely difficult without rods. Their wand/staff/scroll inventory always seems to get burned up at the most inconvenient times.

[Derakon]

A warrior is extremely difficult without rods. Their wand/staff/scroll inventory always seems to get burned up at the most inconvenient times.

What's worse is that not only are rods of Trap Location (and other low-level rods, but that's the main one) more rare than they used to be, but some putz* went through at some point and made the low-level rods vulnerable to electricity! While of course leaving the rods that non-warriors also care about invulnerable.

* No offense intended if you are that putz.

[nppangband]

What's worse is that not only are rods of Trap Location (and other low-level rods, but that's the main one) more rare than they used to be, but some putz* went through at some point and made the low-level rods vulnerable to electricity! While of course leaving the rods that non-warriors also care about invulnerable.

* No offense intended if you are that putz.

It's been a while since I did the patch, but I think I actually *was* that putz.* I don't think I did anything about rarity. I think I made them more common & shallow to compensate.

*No offense taken.

[Derakon]

The rarity problem is just a side-effect of TMJ reducing the number of items overall. Used to be you could pretty reliably find a -TrapLocation by 500' or so, but now I routinely have characters going well past 1000' without finding one.

[buzzkill]

I envision something like this- A staff of teleportation (1d6) (0+0)
Activates for teleportation, requires 25 turns to recharge.

I think that this is a neat idea. In lieu of a static recharge time, and in order to differentiate wieldable staves from rods, I'd do something unusual, like have the fail rate set to 100% upon wield and after each successful use, and then slowly reduce the fail rate with each passing turn. Deeper (found) items would typically "recharge" more quickly than their shallow counterparts.

[fizzix]

I think that this is a neat idea. In lieu of a static recharge time, and in order to differentiate wieldable staves from rods, I'd do something unusual, like have the fail rate set to 100% upon wield and after each successful use, and then slowly reduce the fail rate with each passing turn. Deeper (found) items would typically "recharge" more quickly than their shallow counterparts.

that's actually a very interesting idea for recharge times. I'd make it slightly more punitive in that a failed use resets the rod/staff/artifact/whatever back to 100%.

[buzzkill]

that's actually a very interesting idea for recharge times. I'd make it slightly more punitive in that a failed use resets the rod/staff/artifact/whatever back to 100%.

I toyed with that notion, but came to the conclusion that it may well be too punitive given that a) the staff must be consistently wielded as a primary weapon (thus negating the use of that slot for something more useful), b) I envision failure rate not reaching 0% for all or even most users, c) it may take up to 100 turns to reach optimal success rate once again.

In short, I fear that a "100% fail reset" upon any attempted use may well yield the wieldable staff inferior to other 'a' slot options, however, a modest increase in failure rate wouldn't be out of the question. Of course, altering the minimum failure rate and/or "recharge" time could make "a 100% fail reset" entirely plausible, though still brutal.

[Derakon]

So I take it then that getting into melee with a confusing enemy without the corresponding resistance is to be a death sentence? Staves are the only magical devices that a) can be used when blinded/confused, and b) provide any kind of escape effect.

[fizzix]

I toyed with that notion, but came to the conclusion that it may well be too punitive given that a) the staff must be consistently wielded as a primary weapon (thus negating the use of that slot for something more useful), b) I envision failure rate not reaching 0% for all or even most users, c) it may take up to 100 turns to reach optimal success rate once again.

sorry, i wasn't clear. I was extrapolating your idea to everything that currently has a recharge time. Wieldable staves are something else entirely. I'm still not entirely convinced that they're a great idea (I found them annoying in DaJ). But they sure are fun to think about.

[kaypy]

On the specifically stone-to-mud issue, I do note that we effectively have a rod in the Ring of Delving. A bit less convenient maybe, but still basically an unlimited projectile dig.

I suspect a recharging-wielded-staff would wind up the same way: wield it long enough to recharge it, then cart it around in the pack until needed.

[Timo Pietilä]

On the specifically stone-to-mud issue, I do note that we effectively have a rod in the Ring of Delving.

I don't think many people use those, and even if they use those they use it for very limited time.

Ring slots are just too valuable and in inventory it is just waste of space. I vote for removal of the thing (it is rather late addition) as removing one junk item more.

[kaypy]

I found them useful enough to haul around most of my last game.

[Jungle_Boy]

that's actually a very interesting idea for recharge times. I'd make it slightly more punitive in that a failed use resets the rod/staff/artifact/whatever back to 100%.

Perhaps instead of resetting to 100% failure after an attempted use you could add 25% or 50%. That way you could try more than once but each try increases the chance the next try is gonna fail.