YACD - Sell Paurnen, Pauraegen

[Derakon]

Don't use CCW while directly in the fight. Move away from the fight (e.g. via phase door) and drink CCW while you wait for the enemy to catch up with you. Ideally you'd do the same thing with Healing. Healing while in melee range gives your enemies free turns to hit you. Better to make them come to you while you heal, and then hit them when they step next to you.

When your experience is drained, each kill you make gives 90% to your current XP total and 10% to your max XP total -- thus, you can still make permanent gains in experience even when drained. Even without that, though, draining is not very serious; certainly not enough to be worth dedicating an inventory slot to. I'd rather carry even marginal buffs like Heroism and Holy Chant than Restore Life Levels. Loss of experience is simply not tactically relevant, and restoring it will not make a noticeable improvement in your ability to survive.

[buzzkill]

When your experience is drained, each kill you make gives 90% to your current XP total and 10% to your max XP total -- thus, you can still make permanent gains in experience even when drained. Even without that, though, draining is not very serious; certainly not enough to be worth dedicating an inventory slot to.

I see this posted all the time here at oook (XP drain is no big deal), and I personally disagree. Maybe for great players XP drain doesn't suck that bad, but I always find HOLD_LIFE to be very helpful. When you're struggling through character levels 20-30's a big XP drain hurts bad. I agree that later in the game it becomes nearly negligible, but I wouldn't dismiss it in all cases or to all players.

Would I dedicate an inventory slot to restore life levels? No.
Do I store restore life levels at home? Rarely.
Would I carry a swap something-or-other with HOLD_LIFE? Hell yeah.

[perdaniel]

Generally, really good players (like the ones giving you advice) plan on winning the game (and frequently do so) and therefore store healing potions for the last couple of fights, Sauron and Morgoth. If you find you need them now and don't see winning as a distinct possibility, then by all means use them as you see fit, that's what I usually do.

Of course I plan on winning, but I can't win if I get killed halfway through the dungeon. I am stockpiling !*Healing* for later use, and I find more !Healing than I use. I am the first to admit that I'm not a great player, the deepest I have ever been is 2750', and that is with the current character. Because I'm not a great player I try to be cautious. My first goal is to get a bit deeper into the dungeon, and live to tell about it. My second goal is to win the game. Even if my current character gets killed I will hopefully have learned something that I can use when I play with my next character. But I don't plan on getting killed.

[perdaniel]

Don't use CCW while directly in the fight.

That is exactly what I have been doing: Before any big fight I have quaffed a !speed, a !heroism, and if the monster can breath poison a !rPoison. Then I have whacked the monster(s) with Ringil until I was down to 60-70% health, quaffed a !Healing and continued whacking. Maybe I should start to be a little more clever and follow your advice.

Move away from the fight (e.g. via phase door) and drink CCW while you wait for the enemy to catch up with you. Ideally you'd do the same thing with Healing. Healing while in melee range gives your enemies free turns to hit you. Better to make them come to you while you heal, and then hit them when they step next to you.

When your experience is drained, each kill you make gives 90% to your current XP total and 10% to your max XP total -- thus, you can still make permanent gains in experience even when drained. Even without that, though, draining is not very serious; certainly not enough to be worth dedicating an inventory slot to. I'd rather carry even marginal buffs like Heroism and Holy Chant than Restore Life Levels. Loss of experience is simply not tactically relevant, and restoring it will not make a noticeable improvement in your ability to survive.

Thanks for the help, I have sold the !RLL now and bought me some ?Phase Door.

[Timo Pietilä]

My first goal is to get a bit deeper into the dungeon, and live to tell about it. My second goal is to win the game. Even if my current character gets killed I will hopefully have learned something that I can use when I play with my next character. But I don't plan on getting killed.

Actually you goal for now should be to get deep fast. Not slowly. You have endgame-quality gear, only things you are lacking are very deep things like Rings of Power and Rings of Speed. You should be around 4000' by now (actually for most of us you should be hitting Morgoth in the head with that Ringil, but lets say at least 4000' for now).

Playing cautiously at shallow depths teaches you one wrong thing: you can handle anything anywhere. That is no longer true in deeper depths, so learn to avoid things. Stealth, phase door, never in open with summoners, things like that.

With your current gear you should find out that 4000' isn't much more dangerous than 2750'. Just don't be in LoS of multiple deep things you don't know and you should be OK.

[perdaniel]

Playing cautiously at shallow depths teaches you one wrong thing: you can handle anything anywhere.

Saruman showed me yesterday at 3000' that I can't handle everything. He decided to summon an angel, which summoned another angel and so on. In the end I was figthing Saruman, Gabriel, Azriel, Uriel and lots of non-uniques. I soon found out that I couldn't win and teleported away and left the level. Today I found Saruman again, luckily he just summoned a low level undead before I killed him.

[perdaniel]

Would I dedicate an inventory slot to restore life levels? No.
Do I store restore life levels at home? Rarely.
Would I carry a swap something-or-other with HOLD_LIFE? Hell yeah.

Why would you use a slot to carry something with hold life but not !RLL?

[buzzkill]

Because once life force is drained you've already lost. I'd rather hold on to it in the first place.

RLL is a one shot deal. Assuming XP is important to you, you would drink it after the battle is over, at which point you end up where you started at. No XP gained from the battle. What's the point? (If you can anticipate the end of the battle, you could drink it just before, but that's risky)

Hold Life is more like a rod of RLL. It's always working. Reducing or flat out eliminating XP drain. Even with hold life, I don't go fighting life drainers unless I have a reason to, or can kill them quickly.

[Derakon]

Meanwhile, I haven't cared about experience drain for awhile and my gameplay doesn't seem to be measurably impacted by that choice. This kind of thing is hard to quantify. I guess if experience drain is a big deal to you, then go ahead and carry countermeasures of whatever type seems appropriate...but you should try a game without them (if you haven't already) just to see if they're really as important as your instinct says they are. There's many things in the game that I had at one point decided were important, which really weren't when I revisited those decisions later.

[perdaniel]

Because once life force is drained you've already lost. I'd rather hold on to it in the first place.

RLL is a one shot deal. Assuming XP is important to you, you would drink it after the battle is over, at which point you end up where you started at. No XP gained from the battle. What's the point? (If you can anticipate the end of the battle, you could drink it just before, but that's risky)

Hold Life is more like a rod of RLL. It's always working. Reducing or flat out eliminating XP drain. Even with hold life, I don't go fighting life drainers unless I have a reason to, or can kill them quickly.

I used to drink a !RLL when the life drainer was badly damaged, and occasionally they drained me again so that I had to drink another !RLL. I think I understand your reasoning now.

[perdaniel]

Meanwhile, I haven't cared about experience drain for awhile and my gameplay doesn't seem to be measurably impacted by that choice. This kind of thing is hard to quantify. I guess if experience drain is a big deal to you, then go ahead and carry countermeasures of whatever type seems appropriate...but you should try a game without them (if you haven't already) just to see if they're really as important as your instinct says they are. There's many things in the game that I had at one point decided were important, which really weren't when I revisited those decisions later.

I am pretty sure that you are vastly more skilled at this complex game than I am. Anyway I sold the !RLL some time ago, and since then my warrior has reached level 50, so drain life isn't that big a problem anymore, even though he got drained back to level 49 and had to play at that level for some time because ha didn't find any !RLL.

[perdaniel]

Your character looks great and is close to being geared for the endgame.

From your inventory I would get rid of: c,e,l,m,n,q, r. I'd also leave at least 30 !healing at home. Also carry around !rCold, ?phase, and !CCW.

From your home I would get rid of: c,e,f, h,i,j,k,n,o,p,q,r,t,u,v

Bear in mind charges from staves add but so does the weight so you can reduce your weight by 20 lbs by carrying 1x _identify and 2x _teleportation, which will be another point of speed.

Why should I sell Firestar? I just got the advice a few hundred feet ago to keep it with me at all times.

[bulian]

I am pretty sure that you are vastly more skilled at this complex game than I am.

You're doing just fine. The first win is the toughest. Besides if you didn't want people's advice you wouldn't be posting here.

Why should I sell Firestar? I just got the advice a few hundred feet ago to keep it with me at all times.

Azaghal = lighter firestar. 6 one way, half a dozen another, really, but you only need one swap with immunity on it. Excess weight = lower speed = bad. Plus azaghal has slay dragon whereas firestar has a brand. When you get Nara ditch azaghal. Swaps are for defense, so whatever is breathing lots of fire at you (red dragon pits or balrogs), the brand on firestar won't do much.

I see you have thorin, you should be carrying it for black dragons at the very least. Immunity is a huge huge huge upgrade over a single or even double resistance. You don't have to worry about rDark just yet. Just watch out for Ungoliant and Tselakus.

[perdaniel]

You're doing just fine. The first win is the toughest. Besides if you didn't want people's advice you wouldn't be posting here.

Thank you for your kind words. I do want advice, but I sometimes feel that I am not skilled or experienced enough to follow the advice.

Azaghal = lighter firestar. 6 one way, half a dozen another, really, but you only need one swap with immunity on it. Excess weight = lower speed = bad. Plus azaghal has slay dragon whereas firestar has a brand. When you get Nara ditch azaghal. Swaps are for defense, so whatever is breathing lots of fire at you (red dragon pits or balrogs), the brand on firestar won't do much.

I see you have thorin, you should be carrying it for black dragons at the very least. Immunity is a huge huge huge upgrade over a single or even double resistance. You don't have to worry about rDark just yet. Just watch out for Ungoliant and Tselakus.

Thanks for the explanation. I find it much easier to follow advice if I understand why I should be doing it that way.

[Timo Pietilä]

I see you have thorin, you should be carrying it for black dragons at the very least. Immunity is a huge huge huge upgrade over a single or even double resistance. You don't have to worry about rDark just yet. Just watch out for Ungoliant and Tselakus.

Tselakus darkness storm isn't that dangerous because of relatively shallow depth. Vecna OTOH is very dangerous with its darkness storm (does more damage than Ungoliant darkness breath, and spells do not have damage cap).