Trap detection

[Raxmei]

Somebody mentioned that rods of trap detection might be excessively rare right now and I have felt some of that. I just beat the game as a warrior without finding a single one. Surprisingly it was not as annoying as I thought it would be. In a way it helped me dive slightly faster. I used scrolls of trap detection in vaults but otherwise simply accepted that I'd hit lots of traps. Having most of the physical sustains covered most of the time helped.

This raises the question of what we want out of traps. Most characters gain the ability to largely bypass the challenge at the cost of slowing their exploration down a bit. Even if you aren't so fortunate the hazard normally isn't huge.

[Derakon]

Pretty much everyone thinks that traps are dull right now. There've been a number of discussions on what to do with them; the problem really is that they need a serious overhaul to become interesting without requiring the "stop at regular intervals to use detection" mechanic. Serious overhauls tend not to happen -- or at least, not for a long time.

[Max Stats]

Pretty much everyone thinks that traps are dull right now. There've been a number of discussions on what to do with them; the problem really is that they need a serious overhaul to become interesting without requiring the "stop at regular intervals to use detection" mechanic. Serious overhauls tend not to happen -- or at least, not for a long time.

One possibility would be to remove all forms of magical trap detection while slightly bumping up the ability for the Perception stat to locate traps. Perhaps trap perception could begin more than one square away from the trap, although with a lower chance of success, with the chance increasing as the distance to the trap decreases.

[Derakon]

Yes, that's been mentioned in those threads discussing trap detection. The issue then largely becomes one of "either search constantly or risk being randomly screwed over", neither of which are good options. Traps need to create meaningful tactical decisions.

[Raxmei]

Another part is making the hazards themselves more interesting. If you did do away with detect entirely then trap door and stat drain are perhaps too harsh. Meanwhile simple pit traps and certain statuses have little effect as it is. Past level fiveish I stopped caring when I blundered into pit traps and as a dwarf I was immune to blindness. Direct damage traps are hard to balance. Either they're trivial or too likely to kill the character and damage isn't terribly interesting in itself. The traps that had the most lasting impact for me were teleport, summoning rune (stays terrifying to the end), and trap door. Ideally you'd want effects that complicate things for the character but don't frustratingly screw them over. Adom's alarm traps for example would do something interesting tactically.

[Timo Pietilä]

Yes, that's been mentioned in those threads discussing trap detection. The issue then largely becomes one of "either search constantly or risk being randomly screwed over", neither of which are good options. Traps need to create meaningful tactical decisions.

One thing to make traps non-trivial is to remove all forms of guaranteed trap disarming. That would require removing annoying ones (trapdoors, teleport) and deadly (summoning, teleport) to make vaults with lots of traps less annoying. You could still avoid them, but that is no different than what the situation is now.

Maybe add traps that make moving thru them slow (like some variant spider webs).

Also that suggested ranged detection with searching gear/skill would make magical detection unnecessary.

[d_m]

One thing to make traps non-trivial is to remove all forms of guaranteed trap disarming. That would require removing annoying ones (trapdoors, teleport) and deadly (summoning, teleport) to make vaults with lots of traps less annoying. You could still avoid them, but that is no different than what the situation is now.

Maybe add traps that make moving thru them slow (like some variant spider webs).

Also that suggested ranged detection with searching gear/skill would make magical detection unnecessary.

I share your opinion that maybe guaranteed trap detection and/or disarming might need to go in order to make traps somewhat interesting/challenging.

I also like your idea of a trap that temporarily slows you. In fact, most of the status effects would make good traps.

[Raxmei]

There's already a trap that temporarily slows you. There's also paralysis, confusion, and blindness but not fear, hallucination (please don't add this one), vomiting/starvation, or stunning.

[CJNyfalt]

Well, my take on traps is that I would strongly prefer if warriors was able to play fine without carrying a tons of consumables for detection.
Also, I nearly always remove trap doors before I start playing a variant, they are just too annoying.

[Timo Pietilä]

There's already a trap that temporarily slows you. There's also paralysis, confusion, and blindness but not fear, hallucination (please don't add this one), vomiting/starvation, or stunning.

Slow can be deadly unless you can cure it. What I mean is slow thru that trap, no longer. As soon as you are out of the trap you are no longer affected.

[Derakon]

So in other words, you're suggesting a terrain type that slows down the player while they pass through it?

We could replace traps with terrain in general; not a terrible idea IMO. Terrain's visually obvious, so no need for detection, but it can easily create new tactical decisions. It does tend to make the dungeon look a bit schitzophrenic though.

[Therem Harth]

Hmm. Oangband has terrain IIRC; stuff like rubble and trees slowing the player down. And Un has broken floors and vents and all kinds of stuff.

[Jazerus]

Removing traps in favor of terrain might be a good idea; hidden traps are mostly holdovers from D&D, where they could be interesting roleplaying exercises with DM discretion rather than the occasional unavoidable irritations that they're implemented as in most roguelikes. This would also allow for "themed" levels, which would fulfill the same function as cavern and labyrinth levels in breaking up the sameness of the standard dungeon occasionally. What's a proper 5000' dungeon without a few lava pits?