Healing is too easily come by in the early game

[jens]

!Cure Light Wounds
- These potions are found in abundance, and they heal quite a lot (20 hp) for the early game -> Making the early game way too easy. Since CLW is only used in the early game it has basically increased from 15 -> 20 hp, which is a big increase...
- Suggestion: decrease the frequency and potency of the early healing potions.

The healing part of the early potions used to be:
!CLW (15% | 15 hp), currently: 20
!CSW (20% | 25 hp), currently: 40
!CCW (25% | 30 hp), currently: 60

Suggestions:

Change healing power from -> to -> (and since random is more fun):
!CLW 20 -> 15 -> 6d4
!CSW 40 -> 30 -> 10d5
!CCW 60 -> 60 -> 15d7

Change allocation from -> to
!CLW
A:100:1 to 15 => A:80:1 to 15
M:100:2d3 => M:90:2d3

!CSW
A:100:4 to 40 => A:80:4 to 40
M:85:2d3 => M:80:2d3

!CCW
A:100:12 to 100 => A:80:12 to 100
M:75:2d3 => M:70:2d3

[Derakon]

I have noticed that since C*W potions started showing up in stacks, I've had to make many fewer trips to the alchemist to restock. Typically I only need to buy more if I got into a fight I really shouldn't have which drained my supply; incidental use to cure status ailments or deal with minor surprises is easily replenished by the dungeon. Which, IMO, is good.

As for healing amount, I'm not a huge fan of random heals and don't have a good feel for how much healing is too much. I don't use CLW much at all since it's so quickly eclipsed by CSW.

[jens]

I prefer random in most situations :-) YMMV.

My main point is with CLW; yes soon eclipsed, but you are just about immortal the first dlvls because you have so much healing power. Realised this since I've just played a few games where I've had to restart because of bugs ;-)

I prefer a game where you occasionally run out of supplies, again YMMV. But notice that my suggested nerfs for allocations are quite small...

[Magnate]

My main point is with CLW; yes soon eclipsed, but you are just about immortal the first dlvls because you have so much healing power.

I don't think I agree with you here. At low levels it doesn't matter if a potion heals 15hp or 20, if you have only enough hp to make it worth drinking one or two.

Perhaps they are a bit too common though - that can certainly be tweaked easily.

[jens]

I don't think I agree with you here. At low levels it doesn't matter if a potion heals 15hp or 20, if you have only enough hp to make it worth drinking one or two.

Perhaps they are a bit too common though - that can certainly be tweaked easily.

When you are below 30 max hp, then it will not matter because either is good.

In the range of about 30 - 60 max hp, then it matters. You can go into fights over your head and just quaff your way through.

After 60 or so max hp it will start to matter less since better potions come along, and you will be needing better healing as well...

I had a recent start where it was only when I became surrounded on 4 sides and needed to quaff a potion every second turn that I lost the race. I had 20 !CLW when I started that fight, and that was after buying 3 at the store, walking through 4 dlvls, and using them liberally on the way.

I agree that the allocation is the bigger problem. An allocation of 100 and 100% chance of a 2d3 pile equals an allocation of 400. My nerf (80 & 90% chance of 2d3 pile) would bring that to equal an allocation of 288. This is quite a conservative nerf compared to how overabundant they are...

I also remember the other potions being quite abundant, so I see no problem nerfing their allocation a bit as well, though I admit my tweaks were mostly easthetical ;-)

[Tobias]

Considering all of those are sold at the store, i don't think allocation matters for those. It just moves the point where you have enough money to fully restock, and where you don't. It would have less impact then nosell.

I don't support nerfing the !CSW and !CCW. They are very much needed for low con characters. And being basically immortal for up to 99 Turns ( with 99 Potions ) is just a long death.

An Ironman player might think differently.

[fizzix]

I've floated the idea before of having potions of curing and healing be separate. So C*W potions would cure HP but not status ailments. You would need separate potions for that.

[buzzkill]

Lots of good ideas here, I hope at least some of them garner serious consideration. Charging a few more GP for CLW/CSW wouldn't hurt anything either.

[jens]

What about adding a couple of mushrooms that are actually useful? Similar to the three !C*W, but without healing hp.

But hold of on removing them from CCW until the balance is right throughout the game...

[scud]

Related: why are Mushrooms of Vigor (sic) most common in the first ten levels, and rare as rocking horse shit beyond that?

[kaypy]

Related: why are Mushrooms of Vigor (sic) most common in the first ten levels, and rare as rocking horse shit beyond that?

Because there's nothing *else* to put in the dungeon in the early levels.

[Derakon]

Because early on, there's very few items that can be generated, so the mushrooms, which have even distributions across the entire dungeon, are comparatively more likely to show up. At dlvl 1, what's in-depth? Besides all the mushrooms, maybe 5 scrolls, 5 potions, gloves, sandals, robes, cloaks, pebbles, and daggers? As more and more of the 512 base item types in the game (not counting special artifacts) show up, any given item is much less likely to be a mushroom.

[jens]

Related: why are Mushrooms of Vigor (sic) most common in the first ten levels, and rare as rocking horse shit beyond that?

They are quite rare, but available all the way:
A:10:1 to 100

A:10 means it is added 10 times to the list of objects. At the early levels there are not that many objects to compete with, so you have quite a big chance to get one. But soon lots of items are added and the mere 10 added from Vigor don't come up very often any more.

[scud]

Thanks all!

I'm ashamed to say I scum for vigors if I've got none at home and am at timebeast levels...

[Raxmei]

What about adding a couple of mushrooms that are actually useful? Similar to the three !C*W, but without healing hp.

But hold of on removing them from CCW until the balance is right throughout the game...

Isn't that what Fast Recovery does? I guess it'd be nice if you could buy some mushrooms.