I needed that

[diabloblanco]

Got two right. Confusion and poison. Add blindness and maybe nexus. Even confusion is debatable do you need it or not, confusion from distance isn't that common after all. Luckily it is very easy to get from multiple sources, so you don't need to worry about it for long.

Nether definitely is not one of the ones you need ever. Dark maybe with combination of light, because it prevents blinding from dark hounds (same with light), but after you have blindness resist you don't need dark any longer.

So you're saying Holhenneth is not a bad thing to have, eh? Just found that on the ground at 1500'. Not displeased in the slightest...

[Djabanete]

You are making my point for me. When you littered the dungeon with @'s, you were honing your skills at an accelerated rate. That's why you were so much better, afterward, when you slowed down.

While it is true that in a particular game diving may reduce your chances to win *that game*, I believe that even for a beginner it increases the chances of winning *overall* when you include future games.

And it's a whole lot more fun to dive than to hold down an arrow key killing orcs.

Oh, I agree. I've just heard said that speed diving increases your chance of winning *in the game that you speed dive*, which doesn't match my experience.

[Djabanete]

Past a certain point (around about 2000', I'd guess), no matter how powerful you are you will run into situations that are capable of killing you quickly. You will die to several of these before you learn to recognize and deal with them. It's better to have invested comparatively little time to get to that depth and learn the dangers than it is to have spent weeks getting there, die, and then lose all motivation to play for the next several months.

First time I got to that depth, I won. I just took to heart that anything could kill me and was trigger-happy with ?Teleport.

Whenever you've internalized the lesson that anything can kill you, you're ready to win IMO. Challenge games (including speed diving) are a different situation, but I think the game design rewards slow, careful play (which a lot of players find pretty monotonous, myself included).

[Chud]

[...] Challenge games (including speed diving) are a different situation, but I think the game design rewards slow, careful play (which a lot of players find pretty monotonous, myself included).

And that's the problem, at least for me - it's difficult to keep the slow play sufficiently careful.

[Derakon]

And that's the problem. If you actually have the patience and attention span to e.g. not go below 2000' without poison resistance (likely requiring passing a fairly difficult out-of-depth check), or not go below 3000' without more than +10 speed (again, requiring a lot of luck with drops, though not anywhere near as much as it used to), then sure, you're more likely to win. But that takes forever, and is tedious, and most players don't have the level of dedication needed to play that way. So they get sloppy, and sloppiness means death, eventually. If you're going to take those kinds of risks, you may as well do it intentionally, by diving past your comfort zone. Then at least you're having fun!

[diabloblanco]

Oh, I agree. I've just heard said that speed diving increases your chance of winning *in the game that you speed dive*, which doesn't match my experience.

OK, now that advice makes more sense. As far as figuring what down there can kill you (i.e. avoid deep graveyards), diving in that sense is valuable experience. As far as having a character with some longevity, I'm also of the mindset that diving way deep early on (i.e. Level 60 with a Lvl 10 character or some such) is like playing Russian Roulette. I'm sure one can pull it off repeatedly but one would need to be really on their game, and be able to detect and teleport level at will. Much respect to those who can do that.

[myshkin]

As far as having a character with some longevity, I'm also of the mindset that diving way deep early on (i.e. Level 60 with a Lvl 10 character or some such) is like playing Russian Roulette. I'm sure one can pull it off repeatedly but one would need to be really on their game, and be able to detect and teleport level at will. Much respect to those who can do that.

Perhaps we should add a character like this to the competition queue.

[Derakon]

Perhaps we should add a character like this to the competition queue.

It wouldn't be too hard to rig up a character that starts at 4900' and level 1 with all word-of-recall items squelched, as a sort of faked Lost Soul mode. Of course you could turn the squelching off, but we rely on the honor system enough as it is...

[pampl]

I'm not a super fast diver, but looking at the winners posted it seems like I'm pretty fast, and I couldn't stay level 10 until floor 60 even if I wanted to.. there are just too many fights on the way to the stairs, then when you add in all those delicious Ds and Us just a little out of the way, then there's that vault with chaff that's cheaper to kill than to TO...

[diabloblanco]

The above was (obviously, I hope) a major exaggeration. However, you might as well dive. I'm just farting around on 1600' and ran into both Uvatha the Horseman (aside from a Nether Bolt, easily dispatched) and a Patriarch, who had the drop on me badly and I just got the hell out of there to fight another day. I don't have their entire abilities in mind but IIRC they can do bad things to you. Especially when you still have a constitution of 11.

Did I ever mention I hate Nexus Hounds that breathe from off-screen? That's what I should have put in that most-hated thread. That and Filthy Street Urchins. It's like the slums of Rio de Janeiro in the alleys between the armory and the general store sometimes. Snatching and grabbing, always after my cash. And you know they'll just spend it on ale and potions of speed.

[Philip]

BTW Uvatha did not cast a nether bolt, since he's not allowed to. It was probably the patriarch.

[aricz]

Patience is all it takes.

I managed to get careless after I got Morgoth down to 50-60% health.. and he cast summon 'D'.. I was low on health and banished the D's first.. then he manastormed me.. haha.. and killed me.. my heartrate went kaboom and my face got all red and I started shaking.

It was the first time I've ever been at the end of a roguelike without savescumming. That death crushed me. I didn't play A for years.. and it still frustrates me. Wow?

Now I'm back again, this time, on A1200, V Angband 3.03 ..

Oh.. it's only a game..

[fizzix]

It wouldn't be too hard to rig up a character that starts at 4900' and level 1 with all word-of-recall items squelched, as a sort of faked Lost Soul mode. Of course you could turn the squelching off, but we rely on the honor system enough as it is...

How will you randomize the first level 98? Otherwise you can find the optimal move sequence that keeps you alive (if it exists) by simple trial and error.

[Derakon]

You can't, really; about the best you could do is release the character in the town with a Recall effect having just been activated, too far from the stairs to make it to them in time. Even then it'd be trivial to just rest and have the same level each time you try. But I'm not convinced that's a big deal, since after that point the game diverges rather quickly.