Kelek's Grimoire of Power

[Timo Pietilä]

But were you a mage/ranger? This is exactly the sort of thing that would happen with a priest/warrior/paladin etc.

He's not playing the game, he is scumming. Stair-scumming to be exact. He doesn't know how to play the game any other way than to exploit one of the weaknesses of the game design, so normal RNG rules do not apply to him.

[Max Stats]

He's not playing the game, he is scumming. Stair-scumming to be exact. He doesn't know how to play the game any other way than to exploit one of the weaknesses of the game design, so normal RNG rules do not apply to him.

Even with scumming, this is still a pretty rare find. Scumming is an exploitation to be sure, but it is apparently pretty common. It is common enough that at one time there was an "auto-scum" option that would repeatedly generate levels until it found one with a "good" feeling. I never cared for it myself, though, and if it were still in the game it would most certainly be under the "cheat" options.

Back to the subject of rare finds, I have always wanted to pull the object generation code out and make a program that would repeatedly generate objects at a given dungeon level until it generated whatever object you told it to. Then it would tell you how many "drops" it took for that object to come up. I thought of this when reading discussions about what it takes to find The One Ring. That would let you find out just how unlikely a find it is. Unfortunately I lack either the skill, time, or patience (or possibly all three) to do it myself.

[Antoine]

He's not playing the game, he is scumming. Stair-scumming to be exact. He doesn't know how to play the game any other way than to exploit one of the weaknesses of the game design, so normal RNG rules do not apply to him.

~eee!

A.

(filler)

[Max Stats]

~eee!

Isn't that trademarked?

[dos350]

plz no rage timo , i always stair it and i never find before in 3122, eee

[Veritas129]

Wooooot!

Just killed morgoth with my mage! started a couple months ago and this is my first winning character. really satisfying after losing 2 promising pallies and 1 promising mage. Thanks for the help guys, i just decided to keep diving further and further until keleks finally popped up.

kinda made me think up of another question tho. keleks was so damn essential to me beating morgoth since i could just instantly wipe all of his summons with mass banish. im wondering how other classes deal with it? do you have to stock up scrolls and staves? for melee classes do you just hope that he summons a bunch of weaklings around you?

[dos350]

i found myself raging the summons, or if they were serious~ moving far away

[bulian]

i could just instantly wipe all of his summons with mass banish. im wondering how other classes deal with it? do you have to stock up scrolls and staves?

Staves have a pretty good success rate with ?recharge or the equivalent spell and are thus extremely useful. ?Banish and ?Mass banish are hoarded throughout the game for the final fight. Assuming one has a _banish, a typical strategy will be to banish Z, and possibly Q s L D U upon entering DL100, as once those are gone, teleporting becomes significantly safer. Its possible to beat Morgoth with only _banish, _healing, ?phase, and ?recharge.

[Derakon]

I actually rarely use banish against Morgoth, relying instead on Teleport Other and Destruction (i.e. teleport Morgy away, then destruct). This has the advantage of eliminating even unique summons, which is significant since I never bother to kill all uniques before the fight. However, it may not work very well any more since TO was changed to a bolt. We'll see. Morgoth is still faster than anything he can summon, so it should be possible to phase, wait for him to get closer, teleport him, then destruct.

Destruction also will of course remove any ammo you have on the ground, which could be problematic.

(This is relevant because every class but warriors gets access to a destruction spell, and even without that, scrolls of destruction are fairly plentiful)

[bulian]

The one downside to destruction is that destructed uniques can be summoned again, including their friends/escorts. Both are viable, and I use both, but a poor phase can leave you in line of sight of summons. Its also worth mentioning that ?tele takes one turn, whereas ?phase + ?tele-other + destruct takes three turns.

In 3.2 I don't think rogues get destruction as a spell. Not sure about the other hybrid classes.

[buzzkill]

I've only beaten Morgoth once, with a probably too-strong fighter type. I roughly subscribed to Derakon's strategy of TO uber summons, TO Morgoth and destruct if things get too crowded, phase (or teleport) and heal every once in a while. I also sprinkled in a liberal amount of hitting summons on head with sword, cause the drops on DL100 can be pretty sweet.

Aside, I don't find find things like banishment, mass banishment, or even destruction or rune or protection to be useful. I know they are useful, but I haven't found a way to work then into my game play (yet?). Often I carry them around for a while, discover that I never resort to using them, then drop them in favor of something else. My bad, I suppose. Afterthought... maybe I'd use banishment more if I played ASCII.

[Derakon]

Once you get blindness and confusion resistance, ?Destruction is the ideal "I need an escape right now" button. Far better than Teleport Level as it is guaranteed to give you at bare minimum 10-20 turns of solitude* and doesn't force you to bail on the entire level. Destructed areas are also good battlegrounds as it's difficult for lots on monsters to get LOS on you. Finally, destruction is a good way to make problems go away. Is there a graveyard close to that vault you're eyeing? Approach the graveyard from the other side and destruct it; no more problem. Want to take down Sauron, but there's a passel of other uniques that you know will interfere halfway through? Destruction'll clear 'em out. And so on.

And that's not even getting into the more abusive uses of destruction.

* and that's if there's an angry passwall monster right at the perimeter; odds are you'll get enough time to simply rest to full.

[Veritas129]

Yea, i think a sign of taking way too long to beat the game is morgoth not summoning any noteworthy uniques. by the end of the game, i hadnt seen a unique monster for quite some time, even counting 10-20 greater vaults i passed through. he summoned only 1 unique lich and that was easy to TO after i mass banished everything else.