New monsters

[Adley]

70 avg at dlvl 60 (bile demon) is less than annoying, it's nothing.

Before reading this thread, i wasn't aware that bile demons could shoot...

[Ycombinator]

Well, they probably shouldn't be shooting after all, as well as drolems, but for rangers it makes perfect sense. And the most dangerous (or rather unpredictable) ranger's attack is currently S_ANIMAL, which I find a bit odd.

Back to the original topic: is it enough to edit $confdir/angband/edit/monster.txt to get these new creatures in the game? Where does the game get class name ('.' = "vent")?

[Nomad]

I was torn between 'q' and 'H' for centaurs, but given that they are, after all, half-human half-horse creatures, hybrid makes sense.

I'd say you could probably justify putting them in 'n' with the nagas, since they fit with a general "human torso on an animal body" theme. Centaur lords appearing with naga escorts wouldn't be any real issue. (I guess it would also result in Medusa summoning centaurs, but I'm not sure that's a particularly bad thing.)

I believe 'x' and 'N' are both currently free for new monster types, unless there's some reason I don't know why they're not in use. Maybe you could use 'x' for the vents, and 'N' for nymphs/dryads/satyrs or something like that?

[Derakon]

To add these monsters to the game, you need to do two things:

1) Copy them (all of them, vents.txt, centaurs.txt, and misc.txt) onto the end of monster.txt
2) Edit limits.txt

limits.txt declares how many monsters from monster.txt will be used. If you don't increase the limit there then the game will complain that you have too many entries. Find the line that says "M:R:something" and change it to "M:R:648".

The entries in monster.txt must be in order. Each one has an ID number in its first line (e.g. N:645:Solar fiend, the fiend's ID number is 645), and if those are in the wrong order or one is skipped then the game will complain. The line after that specifies how the monster is drawn, e.g. "G:U:y" means a yellow 'U'. This is all documented at the top of monster.txt, so you can read that to figure out how to make your own monsters. The main complexities are the I: and W: lines, which are rather hard to read.

I also wasn't aware that bile demons could shoot arrows. I knew about drolems though. And frankly, it doesn't bug me that a giant mechanical dragon has a ballista on its back.

[fizzix]

I'd say you could probably justify putting them in 'n' with the nagas, since they fit with a general "human torso on an animal body" theme. Centaur lords appearing with naga escorts wouldn't be any real issue. (I guess it would also result in Medusa summoning centaurs, but I'm not sure that's a particularly bad thing.)

If Medusa were to summon centaurs, she'd be much stronger than currently. She has a reasonable summon (hydras) and an incredibly weak summon (kin). Getting a hydra summon often requires bailing for me. Making the kin summon strong would make her much more powerful.

[Lord Fell]

One of my big concerns about a lot of extra monsters is adherence to theme. Obviously, I have some flexibility, because I have no problems with adding 'y'eeks to the game, where I'm sure that Tolkein never conceived of such a creature. I guess what I "want" is an internally consistent collection of Fantasy monsters. Adding too many different types or varieties can weaken that consistency.

I think I like the idea of expanding 'j'ellies instead of adding vents. To my mind, a "vent" isn't a monster, it's a trap. Jellies don't necessarily need to breath their element, they could "touch" to do it... but on the other hand, I don't really see why they couldn't.

I also have a thematic concern about "Solar Demons." To my mind, a Solar is an Angel, or at the very least, "solar" is just not an appropriate adjective to describe anything that's Infernal. I don't really have any issue with the idea of a "Fallen Solar" though.

[Adley]

fallen angels? "You hit the fallen archon. The fallen archon summons greater demons!(x3)"

But true, a Lunar demon would be most apropriate.

[Derakon]

We could have lunar fiends that are cold-based, and solar fiends that are fire-based. Maybe a celestial fiend that's, uh, gravity-based?

Edit: Lord Fell: thematically Angband is all over the map right now. We have Tolkein, D&D, Japanese mythology (tengus), drunken inspirations (Quylthulgs), etc. So my personal opinion is that, so long as a monster isn't outright silly, it should fit in fine.

[fyonn]

The unicorn I think would make an excellent unique. In my mind it would never attack, but just run and ignore you. if you attack it, it would blind (shining light or some such) and summon angels. maybe even teleport itself or you away.

probably a bugger to kill as it keeps running away, but perhaps one shouldn't kill it(high HP, low XP, no drop)? let it pass and don't attack and then you won't get spammed by angels? not sure if the angband code supports such a thing though.

[fizzix]

I had the conception of a monster with low hp, that would cast healing spells on you.

Alternatively, a monster that casts heal-self 1 in 2 times and moves extremely quickly.

[Derakon]

I'm not a fan of annoyance monsters; a monster you aren't supposed to kill would fall into that category. It basically just exists to disturb your sleep and accidentally get clipped by your attacks, and what fun is that? Angband would need a strongly fleshed-out faction system before I'd be interested in that kind of unicorn.

Fizzix: I have to admit I don't really see the point of what you're suggesting? But in any event, there's no heal-player spell.

I've been taking notes on the centaurs, vents, et al as I play through with my mage. Some tweaks will be needed; for example, vents can become terrified at low health, which I didn't even realize was possible for a monster that can't move.

[fizzix]

Fizzix: I have to admit I don't really see the point of what you're suggesting? But in any event, there's no heal-player spell.

The point was that there could be a 'good' monster in the dungeon. The heal-player monster effect would have to be added. It's not interesting enough that I really care about it, but since we're throwing out ideas.

[bio_hazard]

If we are throwing out ideas, I always thought an early level digging goblin (orc) would be interesting. Some sort of digger before encountering Umberhulks.

Anything else to make the orcs more interesting or relevant for larger parts of the game would be ok in my book.

[Derakon]

Neat idea -- I agree it could be fun. Of course, the only digging monsters in Angband right now are ones that can dig through rock in a single turn, which is kinda weird. Maybe we could kludge in a SLOW_EAT_ROCK that works like EAT_ROCK but sets the monster's energy to -100 afterwards.

[Lord Fell]

Kobold Sapper

...just saying.