Beginner Questions

[bebo]

Lately I've had very little time to play, so my skills are a bit rusty, but I'm finally giving a go to dwarf priests and gnome mages;

On average with these I'd say around

40% lost between dlvl 1 - dlvl 20
50% lost between dlvl 20 - dlvl 50
remaining 10% make it lower and die at various depths

[fizzix]

To make some numbers up, I'd say that for a skilled player, at least 90% of their characters die before 2000'. Of the remaining 10%, maybe 30% will win. Ergo, if a randomly-generated item improves a character's odds of surviving to 2000', then that item has improved the character's odds of winning enormously, even if it isn't used in the endgame.

Are you counting the times I suicide because the store doesn't have !CLW, !Hero a dagger or I forgot to select disconnect stairs and randarts then yes, you *might* get to 90%, but even then I think you're a bit off.

I'd say I lose 2/3 of characters before dlevel 40. About 1/2 of characters that make it past dlevel 40 win. That's if I'm playing a moderately challenging race/class combo. My deaths were a lot higher when I was trying gnome paladins.

[LostTemplar]

I think too that all luck in angband is a bad luck. There are some requirements to win like +20 speed, 600+ hp, ESP, etc., many of them. If you cannot get one of them, your luck is bad, if you get one very early or have it more then needed (like +50 speed) it means nothing at all.

[Derakon]

Okay, folks, this is why I said I made the numbers up. The point, which is still valid, is that the odds of a character winning increase as that character survives later into the game; thus, finding any random item that helps you survive even in the short term is good luck. Heck, finding a dagger of Slay Orc that you use for one level and then sell is still good luck if otherwise you would have been killed by some orcs.

[Sirridan]

Okay, folks, this is why I said I made the numbers up. The point, which is still valid, is that the odds of a character winning increase as that character survives later into the game; thus, finding any random item that helps you survive even in the short term is good luck. Heck, finding a dagger of Slay Orc that you use for one level and then sell is still good luck if otherwise you would have been killed by some orcs.

True enough, although if I was in danger, I would have just ditched the orcs and ran. If I had the dagger though I would kill them. In my opinion, I would say good finds earlier allow me to go deeper, faster, but don't necessarily increase my chances. I can get more than 50% of my characters to level 98 if I don't act reckless.

[fizzix]

True enough, although if I was in danger, I would have just ditched the orcs and ran. If I had the dagger though I would kill them. In my opinion, I would say good finds earlier allow me to go deeper, faster, but don't necessarily increase my chances. I can get more than 50% of my characters to level 98 if I don't act reckless.

If I didn't bother to dive as quickly as possible in the early levels, I.E. Don't take stairs as soon as you come across them, I feel I could get close to 100% of my characters to dlevel 40. Although, I still would have 50% chance of dying after that. However making three characters and diving to dlevel 40 and having two die along the way still takes significantly less time than being slow.

To be honest though, the slow play is really more my style and maybe I should go back to it, even though it's...slow.

[Sirridan]

It's a game, even if a mathematical proof was shown that diving is the *best* way, it's still a game, and the actual best way is the one you have the most fun with.

[Hariolor]

I think too that all luck in angband is a bad luck. There are some requirements to win like +20 speed, 600+ hp, ESP, etc., many of them. If you cannot get one of them, your luck is bad, if you get one very early or have it more then needed (like +50 speed) it means nothing at all.

The trick here, as others allude to, is that getting a really helpful boost early on allows your @ to dive faster than normal. That equates to less time spent on any given level of the dungeon. Less time spent = fewer chances to die.

Ergo

An early stroke of "good luck" probably does dramatically increase the chance of winning, all else being equal...

not that I can really *prove* my statement, but I think the reasoning is sound...

[Tiburon Silverflame]

This begs the question:

What would you consider the best lucky find in the early stages, say between DL 5 and DL 15, to support dropping down fast towards DL 40? I'm not talking specific items, just general abilities.

The standout for me would be ESP first, followed by a speed booster. After that it becomes a bit more class-specific. I put ESP ahead of speed because potions and staves of speed aren't uncommon.

[Derakon]

Speed first, then ESP, then damage. Of course, it depends on the amount of speed; +7 is way more useful than +2. Speed is more useful than ESP because it lets you deal with the mooks that are the source of the vast majority of your items; you can't waste charges or potions on a group of cave trolls, for example.

Frankly, a good melee weapon on a melee-capable class will let you dive down to stat gain pretty much on its own, but they're also much easier to find than speed or ESP (and if nothing else, an enchanted dagger or trident is readily-available).

[Hariolor]

This begs the question:

What would you consider the best lucky find in the early stages, say between DL 5 and DL 15, to support dropping down fast towards DL 40? I'm not talking specific items, just general abilities.

The standout for me would be ESP first, followed by a speed booster. After that it becomes a bit more class-specific. I put ESP ahead of speed because
potions and staves of speed aren't uncommon.

I'd generally agree:

1) ESP
2) Speed +10 (or better)

Beyond that you start getting into specific artifacts/items
I'd say weapons of Westernesse make a fast dive easy for combat-classes, as would a lucky artifact (esp Sting and Forgasil).
Also armor of elvenkind with a good bonus resist (maybe rShard, at least until Thalkethelakthalothethalktothlk turns up...however that's spelled...)

I'm not as familiar with pure casters, but I'd think a big plus to wis/int would be a good start.

Finally, I'd like to note that finding 2 or 3 rods of TO (or several wands even) can be a huge game-changer early on. Being able to TO changes *everything*, and the sooner it turns up, the better.