what is considered a clean win?

[Fuma]

If there is no death, then ultimately there is no achievement. It devolves into www.progressquest.com.

Sorry for the off-topic but, THANK YOU!
My god. I've been trying to remember this game's name for over six years. It's not that I really cared or I want to play it, but finding something you've been searching for so long is quite satisfying.

Once again, thank you for mentioning this game

[fyonn]

I've been playing angband since.. err.. the early nineties I think, on my amiga at the start. In all that time, I have never save scummed. I'm not a hardcore player, just on and off over the years, and in that time, I've won once but I'm still playing it and right now, Ive got a clvl 36 rogue cruising stat gain and I'm still having fun.

I guess the trick is to be cautious. be able to escape and don't be a hero. if a baddy is too tough for you, run like hell, they'll turn up again one day. use detection spells regularly to inform you of traps and monsters so you're not too surprised at what's round the corner.

keep wands of teleport away handy so if you find a vault with loot, you can zap away the big fellas, clear out the small fry, stock up on loot and WoR out. that's the kind of thing you need to be thinking about.

also, tactical play definately comes into it's own. never get into fights in rooms (unless the baddies are trivial). lure your enemies into corridors so that at worst, you can only ave 2 ppl hitting you. try and be around a corner, so that if you have a cirridor of hounds, they can't all breathe on you etc. (basic stuff I know).

just play cautiously and you'll be fine, or at least that's how *I* play

dave

[petebull]

So, is this a clean win? or should I stop doing that, and simply start over when I die?

Use the "cheat_death" option in the games cheat options key: =

That way your dumps get properly marked. Sometimes it's better for your playing style to use this, sometimes it's better to start over. If you died and didn't realise why that happened it could be better to continue with the current character. If you know you'd made a mistake - start over.

After activating that game option your savegame isn't immediatly marked, but after you made the decision to continue after death.

[Diogenes]

Congratulations!

I was intro'd to Angband in 1995. I played off and on for several years, then tried with a vengeance again in 2005. After several weeks of playing a few hours each day, I finally won the game. BUT after reading some posts here, it seems I may have a dirty win. I would save the game as I went, and if I died, I would re-open the game before I got the tombstone, and play with a different action. It seems impossible to me to play the game without doing so, and still get past exp level 25.
So, is this a clean win? or should I stop doing that, and simply start over when I die?
thx

Still: Congratulations on the win! Even with savescumming. :-)

The game is hard enough even then. You might consider savecumming as that you did indeed start the game over with a new character, but without the frustration of having to crawl yourself through the boring first 20 levels again, and again, and again...[1]

How many times did you think you reloaded?


Cheers,

Peter.

[1] Which for me is the reason I suspend playing it for some years after a while - it becomes an attrition game like someone said B4.

[Mondkalb]

I started with save scumming too. But, after I reached DLvl 80 or so I decided to take the challenge and began playing with accepting the final death.
The following games were somewhat frustrating since I accountered numberless death experiences.
IMO this is the only way to enhance your gameplay and give you hints what you really should avoid.
Main killers are greed, boredom, over confidence and along with both of the latter the keyboard cache.

I finally managed to win the game (with a Dunadan paladin, which appears a pretty easy combo) this year.

At the moment I'm playing with random artifacts because I thought this would give a new thrill to me. But it only seems to make the rare *identify* scrolls more important and also caused some gasps on my side regarding rediculous artifact creations of the RNG.

[Paffa]

I'll add my own encouragement: Winning is by all means very possible =)

I, as many others here seem to, began with cheating death, savescumming etc. But believe me, winning fair and square feels a *LOT* better. Took me around 3 years to win Angband.. but can't explain it in words how good I felt once I had finally beaten Morgy.

The most important rules are just to keep playing and learn from mistakes to get further with the next character. Eventually you'll find yourself surviving rather well through the whole game.

Now I've won with a Priest, Ranger and Mage =) You can win too.

[Dragonboneman]

Two HE rangers and a Dunadan Warrior for me. Casters are much harder, for me anyway.

[Diogenes]

I'll add my own encouragement: Winning is by all means very possible =)

Seriously?

I mean, I've been playing since 1989 (Moria 4.0) and haven't even come close to winning without using the save-scum... I guess the closes I've been is with Druid - I've started a new Druid session just to see if I can win that one clean. Druid is by far the easiest.

I've seen the leader board here on the forum and (no insult inteded) based on current experience the scores there seem way beyond reach.

I, as many others here seem to, began with cheating death, savescumming etc. But believe me, winning fair and square feels a *LOT* better. Took me around 3 years to win Angband.. but can't explain it in words how good I felt once I had finally beaten Morgy.

The most important rules are just to keep playing and learn from mistakes to get further with the next character. Eventually you'll find yourself surviving rather well through the whole game.

Now I've won with a Priest, Ranger and Mage =) You can win too.

In VA or ZA I keep running into the instakill monsters the ones that you "meet" and in the next turn you see the gravestone. Haven't found a strategy for that.

Still, winning with the Save-scum on also felt good - it was still quite an achievement.

Did you post your winner(s) on the leader board?

Cheers,

Peter,

[Matthias]

I've seen the leader board here on the forum and (no insult intended) based on current experience the scores there seem way beyond reach.

What part seems out of reach? The 99mil exp ones? Once you've killed Morgoth there isn't all that much that can put a teeth in you, so killing random stuff until exp is maxed is mostly a test for one's patience. Also if you want to compare yourself with others on the ladder, comparing turn count or "lower exp" are better criteria than "more exp" in my eyes.

[Mondkalb]

In VA or ZA I keep running into the instakill monsters the ones that you "meet" and in the next turn you see the gravestone. Haven't found a strategy for that.

You can avoid running into instakill monsters with detection/telepathy/high speed. At least a fairly developed character should be able to avoid.

[Paffa]

In VA or ZA I keep running into the instakill monsters the ones that you "meet" and in the next turn you see the gravestone. Haven't found a strategy for that.

Still, winning with the Save-scum on also felt good - it was still quite an achievement.

Did you post your winner(s) on the leader board?

Cheers,

Peter,

Yeah my characters are here. Well actually, this is the only place where tye can be found now.. Lost all of my savefiles when hard drive decided to break http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-browse...otmail.com&s=3

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=5897

And the one which I for some reason posted under e-mail with (at)

I recommend using the option to center the map all the time, it eliminates the threat for off-screen breath at least. With proper resistances, enough speed and means of teleportation there shouldn't be anything that can kill you in one turn.

Anyone in need of help on Angband, join the channel #angband on WorldIRC, big thanks for everyone there for helping me win.

[zaimoni]

In VA or ZA I keep running into the instakill monsters the ones that you "meet" and in the next turn you see the gravestone. Haven't found a strategy for that.

V has (3.0.9-ish) finally removed the "cut corners" option that causes melee instadeaths, especially in Z and its variants (specifically Hengband).

[V correctly defaults it to false. For my playstyle, this makes the run command exactly as useless in V as it already was in Z and its variants. A low stealth statistic doesn't utterly prevent playing a Stealthy Dwarf. Even the noisiest non-aggravating character is stealthy for exactly as long as no superfluous noise reaches the monsters.

That requires corner-cutting explored corners when the detects say it's safe.]

[Diogenes]

Thanks!

You can avoid running into instakill monsters with detection/telepathy/high speed. At least a fairly developed character should be able to avoid.

Mondkalb, Matthias, Paffa, Zaimone:

Thanks for your answers. I'll try more detecting and telepathy - and perhaps a bit more running away. I think some monsters are quite tough for even 45+ level chars (Drolem? Not sure).

The out-of-reach part (for me) seems to be lv 50 and beating Sauron - but I'll try with your tips if I have a character in that region.

I'll also have a look at your char's, Paffa.

I'm not sure yet about the cutting-corners tips, but I'll look at it once more. Did you mean that with cutting corners you can end up in trouble by being blasted by a Drolem standing in breath-range at the other part of the corner?

Cheers,

Peter.

[momo125]

I beat the game by svae scumming, but was more proud of my few guys that reached dng lvl 80.
the only times i really get discouraged is when I WoR or >< into room and die. My last char was finally getting ready to push into 40s and walked down stairs only to get hit by 6 grav hounds and die.
all other deaths were from greed or boredom

[Paffa]

I'm not 100 % sure about this but don't you get the first turn when descending/ascending stairs? if you do, you should've teleported right away.