Nexus: remove stat swap effect

[Sirridan]

Morgoth without the summons is like a menage a trois without the other two.

You can still win, but it's not nearly as satisfying?

[Pete Mack]

Frankly, Morogoth even summoning at all is a bit cheesy.
I've always felt as if the final confrontation with the M himself shouldn't be sullied by a bunch of balrogs or dreadlords being brought in to muddle things up. He's *plenty* powerful enough without summons to scare off all but the most powerful characters, and even they have to play well to win. Just eliminate M's summoning.

Morgoth without the summons is like a menage a trois without the other two.

[Hariolor]

Presumably, if any monster can resist being teleported, then Morgoth can too. That means that the "teleport Morgoth away, then destruct the area" tactic will be invalid. I'm not certain how to feel about that. On the one hand, it is a pretty cheesy way to deal with his summons; on the other hand, what else are you supposed to do with them? You can't leave them behind; they'll surely come back to bite you later. And fighting them is generally infeasible because of how torn up the dungeon is around Morgoth. And if you can't separate Morgoth from his summons, then you're really in trouble. Teleporting away everything except Morgy doesn't strike me as particularly feasible.

Frankly, Morogoth even summoning at all is a bit cheesy.
I've always felt as if the final confrontation with the M himself shouldn't be sullied by a bunch of balrogs or dreadlords being brought in to muddle things up. He's *plenty* powerful enough without summons to scare off all but the most powerful characters, and even they have to play well to win. Just eliminate M's summoning.

[Sirridan]

My only problem with nexus is Nexus Hounds. Otherwise it's rare enough to avoid until you have the resistance, but hounds are nasty. They come in a huge group, so if you somehow end up by some and can't escape right away, you're going to get blasted quite a bit. Make them a little deeper and then I'd be fine with them too.

Although come to think of it, nexus breath is the only breath that can really destroy you without actually killing you. Disnechanted, burned, or otherwise destroyed things can be re-enchanted or replaced. I guess in the end I'd say I'm on the fence about it, but I'd lean toward keeping it as is.

[miyazaki]

Presumably, if any monster can resist being teleported, then Morgoth can too. That means that the "teleport Morgoth away, then destruct the area" tactic will be invalid. I'm not certain how to feel about that. On the one hand, it is a pretty cheesy way to deal with his summons; on the other hand, what else are you supposed to do with them? You can't leave them behind; they'll surely come back to bite you later. And fighting them is generally infeasible because of how torn up the dungeon is around Morgoth. And if you can't separate Morgoth from his summons, then you're really in trouble. Teleporting away everything except Morgy doesn't strike me as particularly feasible.

You can leave them behind. Teleport yourself and let Morgoth find you. Because he is faster then the others, he gets there sooner. I did it my last with my last winner. It works well because all the uniques are on the other side of the level and can't be re-summoned.

[PowerDiver]

Vecna wants to be summoned!.

Exactly. That's why he shouldn't want to have resistance to teleportation.

It's not like summoning is a dialog. It is instantaneous.

[Derakon]

Presumably, if any monster can resist being teleported, then Morgoth can too. That means that the "teleport Morgoth away, then destruct the area" tactic will be invalid. I'm not certain how to feel about that. On the one hand, it is a pretty cheesy way to deal with his summons; on the other hand, what else are you supposed to do with them? You can't leave them behind; they'll surely come back to bite you later. And fighting them is generally infeasible because of how torn up the dungeon is around Morgoth. And if you can't separate Morgoth from his summons, then you're really in trouble. Teleporting away everything except Morgy doesn't strike me as particularly feasible.

[Antoine]

At a minimum, any creature capable of being summoned is susceptible to teleport. So if nexus hounds are immune to teleport, they should not be summonable. Same goes for Vecna.

Not necessarily. They might be able to control whether they are affected by a particular teleport/summons or not.

Vecna wants to be summoned!

A.

[PowerDiver]

How? - by making a few monsters resistant to teleportation (at a minimum, any monster with Nexus attacks, but I'd suggest also some of the scarier spell casters and some creatures that teleport a lot).

At a minimum, any creature capable of being summoned is susceptible to teleport. So if nexus hounds are immune to teleport, they should not be summonable. Same goes for Vecna.

[Antoine]

Why? It's not like Nexus is balanced now. Now if monsters had stats for it to swap that might be a reason removing stat swap from its effects on the player would be bad.

I was just trying to introduce a flaky 'justification' for a change I wanted to see

A.

[Atarlost]

Why? It's not like Nexus is balanced now. Now if monsters had stats for it to swap that might be a reason removing stat swap from its effects on the player would be bad.

If anything should stat swap it should be chaos, which at least in some variants can polymorph as a side effect.

[Antoine]

I think if you're going to mess round with nexus (as used by monsters against @) then you should also weaken nexus (as used by @ against the monsters).

How? - by making a few monsters resistant to teleportation (at a minimum, any monster with Nexus attacks, but I'd suggest also some of the scarier spell casters and some creatures that teleport a lot).

A.

[Derakon]

Hm...I think I could go for that, though stat sustains would have to prevent the stat from being hurt or helped by the effect (so if you only have one un-sustained stat, it would get drained and no stat would get boosted).

I still find it kinda weird that nexus has body-warping effects. That kind of effect should be on chaos attacks, IMO.

[buzzkill]

Having had some time to think about it and having been able to leech off everyone else's ideas, I've come up with the following. Leave things the way they are, or optionally

Darin 1d6 points from one stat and add 1d6 points to another. Added points would never exceed the amount drained so gross permanent stat point loss is possible. Follow this by another saving throw with (50%) bonus to succeed, and if it fails repeat. Repeat. If your first save was 60%, your second save would be 80%, your third would be 90%. The stat drained would likely be your highest stat, but would be chosen randomly after each failed save based on the proportional distribution of your stat points. Select the stat to be added to in a reverse manner.

While the result of this is likely to be bad, there is a chance that a beneficial swap could take place, and the downside is great enough to maintain the fear of nexus.

[fizzix]

You could make the stat swap be a long-term but temporary effect that will correct itself somehow in the future.

Personally, I think that's how all stat draining should work. The idea hasn't gotten much traction though.