Holy Infusions

[Sirridan]

Detection > Detect Monsters sure, but on the off chance you find the book early on, it's useful.

But really, annihilation needs to be buffed.

[Pete Mack]

The slow poison spell is somewhat useful for a paladin; not so much for a priest. I will play paladin for a very long time without PB3, possibly even the whole game. (Staffs work better than the spell for magic mapping.)
So slow poison can save on !CCW if you are short on cash, or running low.

[fyonn]

The slow poison spell is somewhat useful for a paladin; not so much for a priest.

you raise a very good point about how the spells look and work with paladins, thanks for the reminder.

so anyways, is all this consideration worth it do you think?

dave

[Tiburon Silverflame]

I agree with the point that we can't ignore paladin...but Pete's argument isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. I note, he's NOT saying he'd miss it much.

Actually, I'd argue for pulling Slow Poison, then making Neut Poison, which is of limited value to begin with, lower level.

fyonn: if we don't speak up, it's reasonable to assume we're satisfied with The Situation That Currently Exists. If we DON'T bring up the point, we can be assured things won't change.

[Derakon]

I would actually support making Neutralize Poison into a temporary poison resistance spell that also removes poison, and then making it into a late-game spell. We already have plenty of useful early spells, after all.

Similarly, making Remove Fear into Heroism and replacing Chant with it might make sense.

[miyazaki]

Actually, I'd argue for pulling Slow Poison, then making Neut Poison, which is of limited value to begin with, lower level.

I like this idea. I think Neut Poison should replace slow poison in the PB1.

I also think that it would make sense to add a few temporary high resist spells to one of the dugeon books. rNether, rSound, rNexus, rChaos would fit with a priest's flavour, I think. Something to distance them from mages a little more. The spells could be named after common ego items: Stability, Serenity.

I also like the idea of adding a weapon blessing spell instead of a branding spell, but only if the negative effects of weilding a pointy weapon was increased.

[fyonn]

fyonn: if we don't speak up, it's reasonable to assume we're satisfied with The Situation That Currently Exists. If we DON'T bring up the point, we can be assured things won't change.

well, most people liked the old artifacts before someone suggested changing them. now they're in vanilla.

My opinion is that a number of the priest spells are useless at the point at which you get them, so I think we should do something to improve that situation. I'm not saying that every spells has to be useful to every player, as styles differ, but I do think that every spell should be of some proper use to some players some of the time.

I don't want to make priests more powerful, but I think that they should encourage slightly more than a warrior who can heal.

of course, if I'm alone, or if there's only 2-3 of us thinking this then it's all a bit academic. But if there is at least some vague general agreement that there could be some improvement, then I'll start a new thread and we can debate some options (much like we are now but with a little more focus)

I would actually support making Neutralize Poison into a temporary poison resistance spell that also removes poison, and then making it into a late-game spell. We already have plenty of useful early spells, after all.

Similarly, making Remove Fear into Heroism and replacing Chant with it might make sense.

I'm aware that mages have a whole book dedicated to resists, so I'm not sure whether it's a good idea to give priests the same thing.

I do like the idea of making chant include a heroism effect, perhaps with an enhanced bless bonus too? same with prayer

I like this idea. I think Neut Poison should replace slow poison in the PB1.

I also think that it would make sense to add a few temporary high resist spells to one of the dugeon books. rNether, rSound, rNexus, rChaos would fit with a priest's flavour, I think. Something to distance them from mages a little more. The spells could be named after common ego items: Stability, Serenity.

I also like the idea of adding a weapon blessing spell instead of a branding spell, but only if the negative effects of weilding a pointy weapon was increased.

in opposition to my comments about spell resists before, I kinda like the idea of spells for some of the high resists. I think that rConf might fit slightly better than rSound though, and be a very useful spell, esp if it was avail slightly earlier?

I like the idea of blessing non-artifact weapons, but it would have to be pretty high level. possibly rounded out by making sharp missile weapons penalise priests.. I don't really see priests being masters of the bow and arrow...

dave

[Derakon]

I have two issues with temporary high-resist spells. First, the game doesn't currently have any sources of temporary high resists, meaning that such spells would involve new game logic. There's also the issue of how temporary and permanent high resists would stack, but still, this is comparatively minor.

The more important issue is that such spells would basically allow priests and paladins to ignore high resists on gear, which vastly improves their equipment flexibility compared to that of other characters. You only generally need high resists for limited situations -- while many enemies breathe fire, there are comparatively few who breathe chaos, so you don't really need chaos resistance all the time. Normally this means that you can carry swap gear for high resists, but you can only do that for two or three elements before your inventory becomes hopelessly clogged, and swapping can mean giving up other important abilities. Giving priests and paladins "swap gear" that only takes up one inventory space (that they were probably going to use anyway thanks to the other spells in the book), and that doesn't actually require giving up the abilities on their main gear, is probably too powerful.

[miyazaki]

I have two issues with temporary high-resist spells. First, the game doesn't currently have any sources of temporary high resists, meaning that such spells would involve new game logic. There's also the issue of how temporary and permanent high resists would stack, but still, this is comparatively minor.

Actually, there are a few--the most notable being a mushroom that confers termporary rConf.

The more important issue is that such spells would basically allow priests and paladins to ignore high resists on gear, which vastly improves their equipment flexibility compared to that of other characters. You only generally need high resists for limited situations -- while many enemies breathe fire, there are comparatively few who breathe chaos, so you don't really need chaos resistance all the time. Normally this means that you can carry swap gear for high resists, but you can only do that for two or three elements before your inventory becomes hopelessly clogged, and swapping can mean giving up other important abilities. Giving priests and paladins "swap gear" that only takes up one inventory space (that they were probably going to use anyway thanks to the other spells in the book), and that doesn't actually require giving up the abilities on their main gear, is probably too powerful.

I think that only a few high resists should be chosen, most obviously rNether for thematic reasons. I don't think it would make priest or paladins overpowered, no more than the mage/ranger/rogues rPois spell does. Make it a high level bonus kinda spell.